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Old 05-15-2011, 06:25 PM   #1
i_am_the_koi
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2 Up Riding?

So I've been kinda hesitent on doing any two up riding. Gotta figure it's similar to dirt bikes except at higher speed?

Anyway, I was hoping to start this thread to get and give advice to those looking for it on two up riding. Differences in one up, what to do, what to say, how to do it safely, that kind of thing....

So any advice you could give me would be appreciated!!! and anyone else that's been too afraid to ask.

And if anyone's got an extra helmet for cheap, let me know
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:34 PM   #2
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Best advice I can give is to choose your passenger wisely and definitely take the time to run through the scenarios and the do and do not involved in being a passenger.
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Old 05-15-2011, 07:16 PM   #3
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1. Don't be afraid to tell them to hang on to YOU. Why? Because that way they will move WITH you. A rider on the back hanging onto handrails or a rack has the ability to move VERY independently and that means they can fight the lean (and you) if they want.

2. I tell my passengers to look over my INSIDE shoulder during a turn. Yeah, I don't mind them moving a bit back there as they move their heads to the inside. (Again, this predisposes them to lean with the bike).

3. The bike will feel heavy and won't respond as quickly with 2 up. Don't be afraid to give yourself more time and distance.

4. BRIEF your passenger--if you have any communications you need ("I'll tap your hands if your squeezing too tight") they should know them before hand. Let them know that they can brace themselves with their knees if they need to, or, on some bikes during hard braking they can actually reach the tank to brace.

5. Finally: remember you're now responsible for a second life. Act accordingly.
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Old 05-15-2011, 07:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_the_koi View Post
So I've been kinda hesitent on doing any two up riding. Gotta figure it's similar to dirt bikes except at higher speed?
Just hang on tight and enjoy the vibes.



Okay, serious advice: Don't even consider taking a passenger until you have inherent control over the motorcycle. If you have to think about making the bike do something, you're not ready. Everything is harder with a passenger - starting out, stopping and turning. And not by a little bit, either... Make sure that you're prepared to be responsible for someone else's life-altering (or life-ending) experience.
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Old 05-15-2011, 07:55 PM   #5
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Always remember to double tap before you do a wheelie with a passenger!
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:04 PM   #6
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Always remember to double tap before you do a wheelie with a passenger!
Now that's the advice I was looking for!!!!!
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:12 PM   #7
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:15 PM   #8
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Always remember to double tap before you do a wheelie with a passenger!

You just had to go there. I actually thought about posting this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_the_koi View Post
Now that's the advice I was looking for!!!!!

Actually, it was a joke.... *cough* I mean reference. Since you're new to barf, read this. Sobering reality.
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:18 PM   #9
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dirt bikes for a few years now, street bikes 6 months.

I'm not saying I'm going out tomorrow with someone on the back, but was curious as to what I should know should it happen. With the looks/conversations last time I took my bike down to the local watering hole, I have a feeling I might have to put up or shut up should the opportunity be too good. I am not a drinker, please don't think I am saying I'm going to go out drinking/driving. But to go play pool/darts.

So I thought it'd be good to ask those w/ more experience what to look/feel for. Buddy said strap a backpack to the back w/ 40lbs in it and that would give me a quick feel for what the difference was going to be like.
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:22 PM   #10
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Yes, definently sobering, and exactly what I'm talking about not doing, but fun to read
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:24 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by i_am_the_koi View Post
Buddy said strap a backpack to the back w/ 40lbs in it and that would give me a quick feel for what the difference was going to be like.


I would wait until you have a good 5,000 miles under your belt before taking a passenger. It's a huge responsibility and you do have someone else's life in your hands. I just did my first 2 up ride this weekend and everything that was familiar felt different so I'm treating this as if I just started riding and am taking things slowly. I was lucky that my passenger has tons of pillion experience and she gave great advice.
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:33 PM   #12
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here's a quick search in general

pillion

and riding with a pillion

pillion

another one about bikes
another 2 up question
thread on Advanced" passenger techniques
pillion grab handle
How not to do it
and another
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:48 PM   #13
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All good reads.....

I'd brag about it,
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:53 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by i_am_the_koi View Post
Buddy said strap a backpack to the back w/ 40lbs in it and that would give me a quick feel for what the difference was going to be like.
I disagree. Assuming you strap your weight to the rear tight enough and don't have to worry about it falling off, you're kind of just adding some preload weight to the suspension.
But a live body in the back has the option of leaning with you, for you or against you.. they can crush you on braking, or fall off on acceleration. Then there's the numerous helmet bumps that will occur during your cruise to *$.

Sorry, I had to add some sarcasm in there, I hope it is obvious.



Some good tips in this thread: http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums...d.php?t=305966

And really, don't take a passenger until you are comfortable with your motorcycle. And make sure they are geared up as much as you (if not more). I've heard of passengers falling off and suing their pilot before.. gets kind of ugly when that happens

If you've yet to ride on the back, see if you can get an experienced friend to take you. It helps to know what to tell a passenger to expect after you've done it once or twice
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:19 PM   #15
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i_am_the_koi - I've only rode as a pillion and have been enjoying doing so for about 20 years now. I'll try to give you the best advice I can. There is a list in my sig of the BARFers I've rode with, if you want to ask them if I'm being accurate.

Proper gear is of utmost importance! No excuses! ATGATT!

Communication is key. You and your pillion need to set some basic communication signals before you get on a bike together. I tell pilots that I will tap their right leg, continuously, if I need them to pull over for any reason. I learned from GaryJ that tapping the pilot on the chest/waist is a good signal that your pillion is uncomfortable or tired or wants you to slow down. Some pilots also use this as a signal to slow down if the pillion spots a LEO and you're riding a bit too spirited. Left-leg-double-tap explained below.

You must explain to your pillion to lean with you, never against you, no matter what her/his instinct may urge them to do. I tell new pillions to relax and keep their spine straight with the pilot's spine. Also, they should never shift their body weight around while in a turn. If they need to adjust themselves, they need to wait until the bike is going straight and to make their motions as smooth and unobtrusive as possible. If they need to adjust themselves more than a slight adjustment, they should not be afraid to signal you to pull over.

The pillion should be watching the road, when possible/safe, so they can act/react appropriately. There have been a couple times when I've noticed upcoming road hazards before the pilot and was able to alert them in time to avoid them.

You should be aware that your pillion is there, so you're not wondering if they fell off the back, but you should not be hindered by their presence. You should be in a symbiotic relationship, both enjoying the ride and moving together.

If you're both new to riding, spend some time riding around side streets and getting used to how the bike feels and how it feels riding with each other.

If, at any time, during your ride, you feel uncomfortable with your pillion, pull the frak over and discuss it!

Cautious and alive is always better than careless and hurt/dead!

Read this thread and this thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptCrash View Post
1. Don't be afraid to tell them to hang on to YOU. Why? Because that way they will move WITH you. A rider on the back hanging onto handrails or a rack has the ability to move VERY independently and that means they can fight the lean (and you) if they want.

2. I tell my passengers to look over my INSIDE shoulder during a turn. Yeah, I don't mind them moving a bit back there as they move their heads to the inside. (Again, this predisposes them to lean with the bike).

3. The bike will feel heavy and won't respond as quickly with 2 up. Don't be afraid to give yourself more time and distance.

4. BRIEF your passenger--if you have any communications you need ("I'll tap your hands if your squeezing too tight") they should know them before hand. Let them know that they can brace themselves with their knees if they need to, or, on some bikes during hard braking they can actually reach the tank to brace.

5. Finally: remember you're now responsible for a second life. Act accordingly.
Really good advice here! The only thing I would edit is that your pillion shouldn't necessarily always be holding on to you. This does vary a bit by what type of bike you pilot, but...

...Bikes where you're sitting more upright - my default is to have one arm around the pilot for acceleration and one hand on a handrail or rack for braking so I'm not putting my weight on the pilot. Both hands around the pilot for strong acceleration.

... Bikes where you're sitting more forward - my default is to have one arm around the pilot for acceleration and one hand on the tank for braking so I'm not putting my weight on the pilot. Sometimes both hands will be on the tank with my arms tight, but not too tight, around the pilot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolishMortal View Post
Okay, serious advice: Don't even consider taking a passenger until you have inherent control over the motorcycle. If you have to think about making the bike do something, you're not ready. Everything is harder with a passenger - starting out, stopping and turning. And not by a little bit, either... Make sure that you're prepared to be responsible for someone else's life-altering (or life-ending) experience.
+1000!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallen View Post
Always remember to double tap before you do a wheelie with a passenger!
... But as a pillion, I do tell pilots to double tap my left leg if they need me to hold on tighter for anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant View Post


I would wait until you have a good 5,000 miles under your belt before taking a passenger. It's a huge responsibility and you do have someone else's life in your hands. I just did my first 2 up ride this weekend and everything that was familiar felt different so I'm treating this as if I just started riding and am taking things slowly. I was lucky that my passenger has tons of pillion experience and she gave great advice.
Thanks Ant. You are a good pilot and student. I'm looking forward to our next outing - and not just because I'll get to see George again. =]
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