Slow speed practice, no experts please

[beginner]

If you've got the legs for it the KLX is a great starter bike.

Don't misunderstand, there are a lot of things to love about the KLX. The tall suspension doesn't care what you drive across, the motor is well behaved and has all the torque I'll ever need. There is nothing on the bike that doesn't need to be there. It's just that the KLX is dicey in the woods if you're not Andre the Giant.

This is just a BAD IDEA. The control that needs adjusting is your right hand and it's connection to your brain. Chain slack I'll give you--the bike will lunge and jerk...but running your idle up because you can't operate the throttle is a VERY bad idea.

I think you're over reacting. On the KLX it takes very little extra RPM to minimize chain slap at PLP speeds and, for reasons I don't understand, slow speed chain slap is less of a problem on the KLX even though it's chain is longer and the suspension travel much farther than on the TW200. If I owned the TW200 I'd be looking for a stronger throttle control return spring similar to what the KLX has.

Also, if you're looking to do it perfect and to be perfect every time--well, you're in the wrong business.

Since you mention it, that's one of the things that makes figure 8s so productive they are never perfect. My figure 8s look fairly consistent on video but from the seat you see endless tweaks, and variations to make them appear consistent. That's all good for stimulating a motor/balance system.

 

[dOGHAIR]

Moronic!
This troll feast has gone on long enough for me. Charlie has put on 100lbs from all the goodies we have fed him.
Make it stop!
I'm feeling awfully Gandhi right now
/unsubscribed

 

[CaptCrash]

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4927765#post4927765

'Nuf said.

 

[beginner]

I discovered something today I should have known. I can slow ride about 30% slower standing on the pegs than sitting, probably because the human balance system is designed to work best standing. I'm going to find out if slow ride practice standing will improve balance sitting.

Here is a video called "the most amaizing bicycle stunt you will ever see". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ids3Oxsy2Q4 That's an understatement.

 

[B-Cuz]

I discovered something today I should have known. I can slow ride about 30% slower standing on the pegs than sitting, probably because the human balance system is designed to work best standing. I'm going to find out if slow ride practice standing will improve balance sitting.

Here is a video called "the most amaizing bicycle stunt you will ever see". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ids3Oxsy2Q4 That's an understatement.

Funny because that may explain why I can never sit in a chair without the sensation of falling off a cliff. Thanks!

 

[beginner]

Funny because that may explain why I can never sit in a chair without the sensation of falling off a cliff. Thanks!

I forgot to mention, that's one of my secret learning techinques going into my mega seller new book. You can't use it unless you pay me the low low price of $19.95, plus tax.

 

[CaptCrash]

I'm interested in slow speed practice of the kind usually recommended to street riders. I also like gymkhana and motor police skills.

Then why aren't we talking about your swerve practice? Officers do wonderful swerves! And gymkhana is NOT a slow speed behavior.

You didn't mention what slow speed exercies you like to do.

No you didn't.

But it was not SLOW SPEED practice--the title of the thread.

Can't you keep this thing on track?

What should also count is people who want to talk about slow speed practice should be able to do that without interference.

So quit sidetracking it with stuff like this:

I forgot to mention, that's one of my secret learning techinques going into my mega seller new book. You can't use it unless you pay me the low low price of $19.95, plus tax.

So...IF you would like to discuss my incredibly well priced DVD ($19.99) which went on sale this weekend OR buy it...we can...(them 4 cents is important) You can still see shorter versions for free.

To be on topic, the DVD does includes tips for practice & slow speed practice. I'm not sure this is the place to discuss it but if you're that enamored with the idea...I'll be happy to mentor you. Every rider, experienced or inexperienced should practice!

Take this rider for example, he titles himself a "motorman" but clearly he isn't. Look at his head and you'll see he's looking about 10 feet in front of himself at any given time. This is is because "motorman" is riding a well worn pattern that now rewards this fundamental error:

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Because "motorman" has ridden this path so many times the only thing he's doing here is ingraining the bad habit of looking down. Compare 'motorman' with what may be a REAL motorman--the headturns are stunning in the difference:

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I'll be honest here, 'ConeDown' is really handling that Hog beautifully. If you can, open both videos in side by side windows and watch them at the same time.

I know who I want to ride like. A key also is what "SLOW Speed Practice" really is. You'll notice Conedown is using the normal LEO 'attack speed', plenty fast enough to stablize the bike but not so fast as to risk falling at speed. Conedown's SPEED is part of what makes him successful, he's about at full lock and is leaning the motorcycle well, looking through the turn and executing it wonderfully.

"motorman"magoo is just puttering around at the bottom edge of stability and that's probably part of what frightens him so. If he were to pick up his speed and increase his lean while turning his head he could go like this guy:

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Slow, slow speed practice leaves one unstable and doing things like standing to attempt to stablize one's self. If a bike feels unstable it's one of the premium hints that your going TOO slow. TOO slow practice rewards things like looking down and then when you're on the road? Looking down will only reward you with seeing what you hit as you hit it--there won't be time to brake or swerve.

 

[beginner]

So...IF you would like to discuss my incredibly well priced DVD ($19.99) which went on sale this weekend OR buy it...we can...(them 4 cents is important) You can still see shorter versions for free at http://www.HowzitDoneCrash.com

Darn, competition. Here in Michigan competition is giving us some problems. There should be a trade embargo on Idaho. In the mean time I'll respond to the competition. You can use my idea for just $14.95 (plus tax). That's $5.00 off the regular price and I'll throw in free shipping AND, if you act now you'll receive another idea absolutely free (regular price $4.95). But wait, there's more. You'll also receive a fee set of Ginzoo steak knives that will cut thru raw hamburger like it was butter. I've got 2 brilliant ideas now, just 4,998 to go.

A key also is what "SLOW Speed Practice" really is.

In the woods, on a tall bike slow, really slow, too slow, is useful. Trials riders perfect it and it's still considered motorcycle riding. I'm also slow riding rough ground to get used to doing it when unexpected stuff comes up in the woods.

Slow, slow speed practice leaves one unstable and doing things like standing to attempt to stablize one's self. If a bike feels unstable it's one of the premium hints that your going TOO slow. TOO slow practice rewards things like looking down and then when you're on the road? Looking down will only reward you with seeing what you hit as you hit it--there won't be time to brake or swerve.

Sometimes you try so hard to win an argument you shoot yourself in the foot. Slow riding is a core skill on every type of two wheeled motorcycle.

 

[CaptCrash]

I've been hoping to find others who practice enough to have something to talk about.

We try but you keep selling your book.

You aren't interested in talking about practice so why bother with this thread?

Said the mirror.

I'm not a Motorcycle Expert.

Yup.

Better than pushing your book, let's take a look at a rider and see if we can't help him. I know this is a repeat but I think it is good to review:

[Youtube]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gI3thg3I4F4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gI3thg3I4F4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/YouTube]

Rather than trade tit for tat, let's look at your head and body position. You're looking down and not up--if you watch you see that because of it, you JERK the bike around the last 15-20 degrees right before the crossover, I believe this is due to surprise since you're not looking up. I may be imagining it but you're tensing up at the same time.

OH, and I would suggest purpose built gloves for riding? I know you probably feel the welding style gloves afford you more protection but they make controlling the bike more difficult because you're not using a glove designed for riding. The gloves you're wearing aren't precurved and that can cause 'bunching' of material between your hand and the throttle--a purpose built, precurved glove will help with that!

 

[beginner]

Rather than trade tit for tat, let's look at your head and body position. You're looking down and not up--if you watch you see that because of it, you JERK the bike around the last 15-20 degrees right before the crossover, I believe this is due to surprise since you're not looking up. I may be imagining it but you're tensing up at the same time.

One of the things that finally kicked in this Spring is that I can look around almost as easily as in a car and the bike stays stable and goes where I want. A while back I made a video of head turning just for you, which you have seen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLzlZ1DJ6vo Look where you are going is something I agree with. There are places in the woods where I have tricky hairpin turns where I have to watch the ground in front. I've found that taking a glance at 'where you want to go' creates a mental snapshot that lasts a few seconds so I can look back at the terrain in front of the front wheel and still finish the turn smoothly.

OH, and I would suggest purpose built gloves for riding? I know you probably feel the welding style gloves afford you more protection but they make controlling the bike more difficult because you're not using a glove designed for riding. The gloves you're wearing aren't precurved and that can cause 'bunching' of material between your hand and the throttle--a purpose built, precurved glove will help with that!

First, I'm not too impressed with the motorcycle gloves I've seen for the money. They seem to be more about style than abrasion resistance. In the mean time I use the bike to get to work sites on the farm. At first I drove around with 2 pars of gloves then realized that was unnecessary. The work gloves have as much abraision protection over the heel of the hand as the motorcycle gloves I've seen. The work gloves have gauntets around the wrist, they are easier to get on and off, cooler and more comfortable for the protection they give, usually less than $5 a pair, and, when I get to the job, I'm wearing the gloves I need. That particular style of work glove comes in many qualities so when I find a good batch I buy several pairs.

 

[gmcsid]

In the video above I noticed the rider leaning his upper body with the bike. I have learned and found it to be easier to control the bikes transitions when you treat your hips as a hinge and keep your upper body perpendicular with the ground at slow speed.

 

[beginner]

In the video above I noticed the rider leaning his upper body with the bike. I have learned and found it to be easier to control the bikes transitions when you treat your hips as a hinge and keep your upper body perpendicular with the ground at slow speed.

That video is me. I can do it either way, counter balancing to the outside or the inside. When I'm leaning to the inside in that video I'm usually also leaning forward and that's mostly happening near the turn to the center. The reason I'm doing that is to try for a slip in the rear. I don't succeed every time. Crash mentions a "jerk" approaching the center. When that happens it's the end of a slip, the tire resumes turning at the same speed as the bike, graps the pavement and the bike stands up. It should look like the the start of a high side grab because that's what it is. Where I do snap the bike over is just coming out from the center. I do that by sitting up and pushing my hips forward, hard enough to take up the chain slack, and letting the bike lean quickly and catch it by turning the front wheel. I've found that gets the bike turned quick enough so I don't go wide at the ends, it helps me stay in the 18' space for the speed I'm going. Of course Crash will tell you all this is impossible so you'll have to decide who to believe.

At about 12 weeks I figured out that my upper body weight wasn't just useful for Uturns but that what I did with it always mattered. When I first started counter balancing effectively in figure 8s I always looked like what is shown in the avatar, which came from this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5b3-Gk0kQE&feature=channel_page of me at 15 weeks. Today I still counter balance to the outside to establish the lean in slow speed maneuvers but then I might lean body weight back to the inside to stand the bike up more. Sometimes I feel more secure with the bike leaning more, sometimes leaning less. I don't always understand why.

Crash, it's time for you to make a video of your figure 8 in an 18'by36' box. I already know what it's going to look like but if you practice you'll improve, I'll even give you some pointers for free.

 

[planegray]

........ If you are an expert or instructor please do not participate. ...........................

That video is me. ............. I'll even give you some pointers for free.

beguiler beginner;

Please refrain from participating. Now that you have made a video and have become an expert instructor, your advice is not wanted here.



PS: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

 

[B-Cuz]

beguiler beginner;

Please refrain from participating. Now that you have made a video and have become an expert instructor, your advice in not wanted here.



PS: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

BAAA-ZING!

 

[beginner]

beguiler Now that you have made a video and have become an expert instructor, your advice in not wanted here.

I started making videos at 6 weeks to keep track of my progress. I wish I'd started making them earlier. I appreciate the practice videos other people make, especially where the rider has a bit less or a bit more skill than me. Videos of the best guys maneuvering are fun to watch but often they are doing things so far beyond my skills I can't see how they're doing it.

I'm certain I'm not an expert because I still need to practice.

There are occaisions when I need to do a Uturn on a narrow drive or logging road. I can do pretty tight Uturns now, even over rough ground but it would be nice if I could plant a foot, hold the front brake and turn the bike around it's center by spinning the rear tire. I don't have the confidence to try that yet but I'm thinking about a safe way to explore it.

 

[CaptCrash]

Crash, it's time for you to make a video of your figure 8 in an 18'by36' box. I already know what it's going to look like but if you practice you'll improve, I'll even give you some pointers for free.

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OH, and I showed you mine, lets see yours.

 

[beginner]

I showed you mine, lets see yours.

EXCELLENT!

Finally, we're having some fun! Please say thank you, from beginner, to the nice lady, and her assistant, who did the camera work in the rain.

Your figure 8 looked way better than I expected, not a wobble to be seen. Hat's off on that. Your figure 8 is shaped differently than mine, I think you're on the rear brake and you're going a little slower. It appears you tighten it up by turning sharply to the center and staying closer to the center line before turning into the next circle. I should be able to do it your way but it's not what I'm normally trying for.

Can I overlap three circles in the space you used? We'll find out today or tomorrow and I'll make a video.

One of the skills I see in your videos that I covet is balancing the bike slow. I'm working on that a lot more this year because I suspect it's part of the solution to the tall seat in the woods. Recently I've started slow riding the figure 8, going straight, on rough trails, and in Uturns, standing and sitting. (Standing on the pegs a lot in slow riding was wearing me out too fast until I discovered I can keep a straight leg going slow and still have a good exercise.)

If you do your figure 8 without the rear break, then, as you progress on the circle, shift weight forward, and to the inside, and finally add a touch of throttle in the last turn to the center you might feel the rear tire give up a little traction.

By the way, your camera, which I assume is hi def, is giving that choppy look in the figure 8 video just the same as my camera and I'm sure your camera is a lot better quality than mine. There has to be a solution to that or i'm going back to the my older style video camera. Motorcycle practice videos shoud have smooth frames.

 

[omegajeff]

boring.

 

[beginner]

Sorry I haven't been posting. I didn't get to make the video I promised. Two days ago a conservation officer in an unmarked pickup truck was parked on the opposite side of a bridge, on the farm, that I was about to cross. When he saw me coming he drove his truck onto the bridge and angled into my lane to cut me off. I lost traction in gravel attempting to stop and crashed into the guard rail. I was hurt, a badly bruised foot that seems to be mending. The frame of the bike was bent in back from hitting the guard rail, which is probably fixable with some bending, but there's also a slow oil leak from the bottom of the crank case that I hope is just the drain plug but tightening that didn't help. If the crank case is cracked the bike is probably toast and you won't have me to kick around any more.

A lesson for others, the right side plastic hand protector took a phenominal beating against the guard rail. If that hadn't been there I would not be typing this with my right hand. I think every bike should have hand guards.

 

[tzrider]

Two days ago a conservation officer in an unmarked pickup truck was parked on the opposite side of a bridge, on the farm, that I was about to cross. When he saw me coming he drove his truck onto the bridge and angled into my lane to cut me off. I lost traction in gravel attempting to stop and crashed into the guard rail.

Sorry to hear it. I know that's not the outcome you've wanted.

Question: Why would the officer do that?

As a practical consideration, not being licensed to operate a motorcycle puts real limits on the recourse you have. Not trying to kick you when you're down here, but if your bike is fixable and you continue the pursuit, there are good reasons to make sure you're official.

Heal up.