CHP forced to remove Lane Splitting Guidelines-Need your help now!

[nickb]

So if this guy's pointing this out, and CHP takes down the guidelines, returning it to "gray area" status, isn't that kind of a good warning for us motos to not put too much about it in official writing? Again, this is what I'm trying to understand. Lanesharing has been under attack from people wanting it banned long before this guy, so it's not just about that.

Interesting question to bring up. Is lane-splitting on firmer legal ground as a gray area with no mention by a government agency, or with posted safety guidelines endorsed by a government agency?

I believe the latter but that's just my opinion. People have posted that nothing legally has changed and that is right, we can still split lanes the way we've always done. But, those who pointed out that removing the guidelines are a sign of trouble ahead are also right IMO. The way I see it, issues with removing the guidelines are threefold:

1.) One would think, the CHP should be able to post helpful safety information about any legal, legitimate traffic behavior such as turning right on a red light. Taking down safety information about lane-splitting removed what was basically the only authoritative guideline about how to do it safely, leaving new riders to learn by observation. I don't know about you, but I observe unsafe lane-splitting behavior every weekday. It's a public safety issue.

2.) Worse, removing the guidelines on the grounds that the CHP should not endorse such behavior, implies that lane-splitting is different than other legal, legitimate traffic behavior eligible for public safety awareness info. i.e. that it's not a legal or legitimate, or at least questionable enough that public safety info about it should be censored.

3.) Negative publicity about lane-splitting raises public awareness about the issue, giving momentum to drivers who never liked it to start complaining or even organizing against it.

I might be overreacting, but it's hard for me to ignore a warning shot about such an important issue. It would be a drastic change in my quality of life if it were banned. Sure, you can get away with illegal lane-splitting for a time (if lane-splitting is outlawed only outlaws will split lanes), until you get so many tickets that your insurance rates are jacked and/or your license is suspended. Not a good choice.

 

[ALANRIDER7]

Some clueless drivers will hear about this and conclude that splitting is now illegal, widening the gap between cars and bikes even further.

Thoughts as to what to do:

-A petition signed by a gazillion riders and LEOs.

-A strategic approach with the media to get the word out that sharing is legal and lawful when done properly. TV and newspapers reach a lot of people.

-A reminder for all of us about good will- DO NOT ruin the concept by splitting at 80mph.

Remember- This Mandler bozo is just one guy and look at what he accomplished. His issues are his and should not be force fed to us just because he got lucky. Strength in organized numbers can be formidable.

 

[budman]

Thanks for the PDFs. Most helpful.

My suggestion is to start with the OAL and the falsehoods in his petition. Then move to legislators with the information and OALs decision.

Here are the first errors and omissions that I see:

A. He states there was no public input.

B. Guidelines do not need to be specifically sanctioned by statute. Departments issue guidelines all the time on procedures. Take the DMV or CARB, for example.

C. He specifically mentions "weaving" more than once, which we know is not the same as lane sharing.

D. He uses all motorcycle deaths as though they are all due to lane sharing without any supporting evidence.

E. The guidelines were actually MORE restrictive on motorcycles than what was issued before. Which was NOTHING. His assertion is in direct opposition to what was actually published, because we had no guidelines.

F. His lack of regard for public safety is apparent. While disguised as a prophylactic, his petition will remove useful safety guidelines, and thus create more danger for all motorists. He should be admonished for his selfish disregard for his fellow motorists.

Clutchy.. right on the money!

Surj thanks for the effort to inform here.. always appreciated.

I think the right place to voice our opinion is to "The Office of Administrative Law"

Now the proper protocol for doing that is what I am looking for.
Surj.. if you got something there please let me know.

I am going to the AMA looking for their opinion on how to do this.

Attacking Manby pamby is not going to get us anywhere. His petition is weaksauce and the OAL is really the people that accepted and stamped it as something of warrant.

We need to be logical and professional in real communications with the OAL.
Getting testy is plain fail material. Just like addressing a Judge.

Barf will take some unified action here and I hope that when we have our path defined you will all support it.

 

[horsepower]

Clutchy.. right on the money!

Surj thanks for the effort to inform here.. always appreciated.

I think the right place to voice our opinion is to "The Office of Administrative Law"

Now the proper protocol for doing that is what i need.


Attacking Manby pamby is not going to get us anywhere.

We need to be logical and professional in real communications with the OAL.
Getting testy is plain fail material. Just like addressing a Judge.

Barf will take some unified action here and I hope that when we have our path defined you will all support it.

Clutch, you really nailed some gaping holes.
Thanks Dennis. My guess would be to
File an Appeal (seeking reversal or Stay of Execution or Proceedings type request) with aforementioned Office of Administrative law. As you said, THEY are the true target, unless there is a higher authority than that.
Get a petition going in the meantime. Have Data Dan organize proper stats and outline the best points brought up in this thread as bullet points.
Just my

 

[budman]

Found the AMA is already on it. I have provided some additional info to them and when they lay out the path I will be asking for barf members support in whatever manner that will entail.

Go AMA!

 

[revnort]

Found the AMA is already on it. I have provided some additional info to them and when they lay out the path I will be asking for barf members support in whatever manner that will entail.

Go AMA!

In. Let us know Bud!

 

[Lunch Box]

Great news, Budman. I'm glad to hear that the AMA is addressing the issue, but I definitely think that we can and should continue seeking additional ways to make an impact.

 

[Tharkûn]

Feel free to criticize me, but I think that guy was actually protecting your rights.

If you want to spread safety information, get it in print like articles and books and post it on the internet. You can also get it included in educational seminars like MSF, Lee Parks, Doc Wong, Reg Pridmore.

Once the guideline written by the CHP gets quoted in a court case, it could become law. Do you want that?

Wrong. We didn't have 'rights' to lane split, we just had 'well I guess it's not illegal?' The outlines put it down outright from the CHP and the DMV that it was ok to do so

 

[Angel-be-Good]

Wrong. We didn't have 'rights' to lane split, we just had 'well I guess it's not illegal?' The outlines put it down outright from the CHP and the DMV that it was ok to do so

Here is the thing...

There is also no law that states your right to a ham sandwich.

The redacted CHP guidelines were a bit like the FDA writing guidelines to the effect of:

"A ham sandwich made with sliced wheat bread and dijon mustard is permissible."

Okay phew, now I know it is explicitly legal to eat a ham sandwich! Except the FDA doesn't have authority to pass laws about food legality. Also, what if you don't like dijon mustard? Is your ham sandwich still permissible?

You don't need the FDA to give permission to eat a ham sandwich. With or without dijon. You don't need the CHP to give permission to split lanes in California. It is not illegal.

 

[revnort]

Here is the thing...

There is also no law that states your right to a ham sandwich.

The redacted CHP guidelines were a bit like the FDA writing guidelines to the effect of:

"A ham sandwich made with sliced wheat bread and dijon mustard is permissible."

Okay phew, now I know it is explicitly legal to eat a ham sandwich! Except the FDA doesn't have authority to pass laws about food legality. Also, what if you don't like dijon mustard? Is your ham sandwich still permissible?

You don't need the FDA to give permission to eat a ham sandwich. With or without dijon. You don't need the CHP to give permission to split lanes in California. It is not illegal.

Except even though it is legal, it was always an officers discretion to give you a ticket for reckless driving or unsafe lane changes etc. If an officer does not like what you are doing he or she can cite you.

Even though an officer still could have cited you for the above after the guidelines were published, they still provided a baseline for what was permissible. That baseline was for motorcyclists, drivers, and even officers.

 

[Tharkûn]

Here is the thing...

There is also no law that states your right to a ham sandwich.

The redacted CHP guidelines were a bit like the FDA writing guidelines to the effect of:

"A ham sandwich made with sliced wheat bread and dijon mustard is permissible."

Okay phew, now I know it is explicitly legal to eat a ham sandwich! Except the FDA doesn't have authority to pass laws about food legality. Also, what if you don't like dijon mustard? Is your ham sandwich still permissible?

You don't need the FDA to give permission to eat a ham sandwich. With or without dijon. You don't need the CHP to give permission to split lanes in California. It is not illegal.

With constant pressure to make it illegal this was a step in the right direction. It was perched on the fence top and was about to get pushed over the edge to illegal and it would have been much harder to go back if that happened. It would have been much easier for the legislature to make it illegal if the DMV and CHP wouldn't even acknowledge it in print to begin with

 

[horsepower]

With constant pressure to make it illegal this was a step in the right direction. It was perched on the fence top and was about to get pushed over the edge to illegal and it would have been much harder to go back if that happened. It would have been much easier for the legislature to make it illegal if the DMV and CHP wouldn't even acknowledge it in print to begin with

+1 and thank you

 

[Papi]

What's it going to take before you all realize that as a community we are so disjointed and disparate; that unification is the only way to accomplish and win the battles and war against Motorcycling by those who wish to see us gone?

How many more battles are you all willing to lose before the War against us is won by those running your lives and destroying your freedoms?

Clearly, the inner machinations of these battles against us are so formidable by an enemy that you cant even see it? Really?

Sorry to be blunt, but as a community, you all fail at disinformation and guerilla warfare in politico 101.

1.Think.

2. Unite.

3. Fight.

-or-

A. Be couch warriors.

B. Have no voice.

C. Become extinct and non-relevant.

Your choice. It's already happening, it has already happened, you (and we) are losing.

I'm standing hear with a stick beating it loudly and clearly, yet you still don't see it or hear it. Wake up. YOU ARE LOSING. Are you going to fight or lay down? When will you be ready to listen? When will you stop letting others take away your freedoms via Political Puppets?

It's Put Up or Shut Up time.

 

[OldMadBrit]

With constant pressure to make it illegal this was a step in the right direction. It was perched on the fence top and was about to get pushed over the edge to illegal and it would have been much harder to go back if that happened. It would have been much easier for the legislature to make it illegal if the DMV and CHP wouldn't even acknowledge it in print to begin with

+ 1 well said.

Budman, keep us informed and updated on AMA's response and how we can help.

Papi and others, well said - we need a UNITED and coordinated response to protect our rights in this.

"Angel be good", and others - enough with the armchair quarterbacking!!! The "no guide lines" option didn't work, period. That's what got CHP on board with helping preserve it. Get with the program and help get the guidelines reinstated or face the eventual loss of lane sharing.

 

[Marcoose]

1.Think.
2. Unite.
3. Fight.

How does that translate in real actions?

The first part of your post, "as a community we are so disjointed and disparate", resonates the deepest. Just here on BARF it is easy to find threads and opinions defending anything from a joint and a beer while riding, loud pipes, high beams, egregious speeds, hogging the left lane, crazy splits, helmet choice, minimum insurance, no gear, no license tiers, etc, etc. There are as many "disjointed and disparate" actions as choice of litre sprotbiles for noobs. Good luck with "unite".

Whereas Mandler takes the douchenozzle grand prix, man, do we give him loads of ammunition, eh?

 

[budman]

The people who h8 on the Motos only need a bit to make a difference because Joe Public basically agree that we are a pest on societies roads. Very easy to get others to say hell yeah!! Screw those idiots!!

Papi's call for unification is the right call. In my experience the helmet law is the most devisive part of being a road rider. Everyone needs to put that shit aside and work together on issues like this.

If we grow up.
Act like civilized humans on the road and off

We can have a voice to be heard.

 

[Marcoose]

...call for unification is the right call.

... Act like civilized humans on the road and off

Hey, Denny , at the risk of rubbin' ya the wrong way, which "thing", arguably the biggest bang for the buck, would you suggest to kick off the unification? And how would it be imposed and enforced? Say the "thing" is loud pipes. Would BARF go to extremes and suspend/ban members with loud pipes? Or go to Sacto and request irrevocable ban and tough enforcement on non-OEM pipes? It'd make California bikers sound more civilized.

All ears.

 

[budman]

The thing is lane splitting.

Your ears got that brother?!

 

[budman]

Love

Denny

 

[Marcoose]

The thing is lane splitting.

Your ears got that brother?!

Love

Denny

So hit me, lovingly brother from another mother. How do we unite behind lane splitting? Posts on teh BARF?