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Old 08-12-2020, 01:44 PM   #16
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Does anyone have a link to that court ruling??
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Old 08-12-2020, 02:14 PM   #17
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You are absolutely correct! I was merely giving the OP an option. What they do with that, is up to them. A Schuberth most definitely exceeds DOT standards, but a helmet like this........

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Buying a DOT sticker off Amazon doesn't make a helmet compliant.
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Old 08-12-2020, 02:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by bojangle View Post
Buying a DOT sticker off Amazon doesn't make a helmet compliant.



If you're talking motorcycle/car insurance payment or any other type of civil liability, it probably wouldn't be non-payment. For example, if someone else caused the collision, they'd still be civilly liable. But it would provide ammo the insurance companies / attorneys would use to try and reduce liability. They would argue that had the rider been wearing a DOT compliant helmet, their injuries would be less severe (whether true or not) and that they should only be liable for partial medical expenses, etc. Why give them that ammo?
It was discussed in another thread within the last 6 months or so, but... I think that if a helmet does not meet DOT standards, that does. It make it inferior. Many ECE standards are higher than DOT/Snell. If the rider can show that the helmet met higher standards, even if not technically DOT certified I think they would be ok in the long run. It would take a competent attorney with an understanding of Euro certs and stuff, because if it’s that serious where there is litigation, the rider is probably in no position to bring forward that information.

If I remember correctly, Suomy helmets are not DOT certified. But..... if they are good enough for the MotoGP grid and meet FIM standards I can’t imagine anyone making a successful argument that the lid is less safe.

EDIT: Correction.... Suomy helmets are DOT, but not Snell certified. The point remains, though.
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Old 08-12-2020, 03:52 PM   #19
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^^^ Yeah, good point.
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Old 08-12-2020, 06:37 PM   #20
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Most are dual certified DOT/ECE. I wouldn't even worry for a second as long as it's certified.
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Old 08-14-2020, 10:02 AM   #21
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Interesting I put one of them Amazon DOT stickers on my Caberg Tourmax man moons ago.

So your saying if I rode around with my US Army kevlar helmet I wouldn't get in trouble? Like I'd want to wear it around but I always thought it would look cool if I did it once haha.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Many ECE standards are higher than DOT/Snell. If the rider can show that the helmet met higher standards, even if not technically DOT certified I think they would be ok in the long run.
Ok with who?

See the fundamental issue is when would this statute actually come in to play?

As has been mentioned, a peace officer (apparently) can not cite for DOT compliance.

Can an insurance company deny claims because you were "violating the law"?

But if you are not cited, then how do they know you were violating the law?

An ECE standard may be higher than DOT/Snell, but it is also, notably NOT DOT compliant -- thus against the statute. It can't be sold in this country, and it's illegal to wear in this state IN ORDER TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW.

Which brings up another question, are helmets required for off road use? If I'm riding a pit bike at the track without a helmet, is that against the law?

If not, then if I'm wearing an ECE helmet on my pit bike and fall, since I've not "violating the law", an insurance company wouldn't be able to use the fact that I'm wearing a non-DOT helmet as a reason to deny claims (unless there's a clause in the policy regarding helmet use, of course, they anything goes).

So, like a bunch of other laws, when is this one going to reach actual contact with a citizen. I don't see this happening in a courtroom, unless for some silly reason a DA is piling on the charges.

"Not only was this person riding at high speed in a school zone, when they struck the crossing guard in the crosswalk, with an illegal exhaust system, and illegals bike lighting, they were wearing an illegal helmet!!"

"Charges: Manslaughter. Riding with out proper lights. Riding without a DOT helmet. Riding with a loud exhaust. Failed to yield to crossing guard."

And then there's simply whether insurance companies are able to deny claims due to illegal activity.

So, in the end, just not sure when this really matters any more.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:39 PM   #23
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Insurance companies are a private business. They don’t have to have a violation of law to deny a claim.

Any litigation with an insurance company would be handled in civil court, not criminal.
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Old 09-26-2020, 11:55 AM   #24
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I bought a Schuberth C3 from the UK - the exact same helmet that was sold in the US (with a DOT sticker), but since it was bought in the UK, it obviously doesn't have a DOT sticker.

I'd be interested to know whether insurance could refuse to pay up for medical expenses, since, while that model of helmet has passed Snell and DOT, that specific helmet doesn't have a DOT sticker...
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Old 09-26-2020, 12:58 PM   #25
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I'd be interested to know whether insurance could refuse to pay up for medical expenses, since, while that model of helmet has passed Snell and DOT, that specific helmet doesn't have a DOT sticker...
Unlikely. Insurance companies don't enforce the law. If you're shot by a police officer while robbing a liquor store, the insurance company is not going to stop payment because you were performing a felony.

With perhaps less hyperbole, they're also not going to stop payment if you bin your pit bike slipping on some spilled nacho sauce while carrying a jerry can from the paddock to the hot pit, while wearing a t-shirt, shorts and flip flops (but no helmet).

As always, though, check with your insurance for details.
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Old 09-26-2020, 01:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senpai71 View Post
I bought a Schuberth C3 from the UK - the exact same helmet that was sold in the US (with a DOT sticker), but since it was bought in the UK, it obviously doesn't have a DOT sticker.

I'd be interested to know whether insurance could refuse to pay up for medical expenses, since, while that model of helmet has passed Snell and DOT, that specific helmet doesn't have a DOT sticker...
How do you know your UK version of C3 meets DOT standard?

Meeting ECE does not mean it automatically meets DOT standard.

Some manufacturers do actually make helmets for specific markets and thus an ECE certified helmet model could be different than the DOT certified model.

Your insurance company could refuse to pay a claim if the insurance contract (your policy) requires you to wear a DOT certified helmet and you were not wearing one and were injured as a result of not wearing a DOT certified helmet.

There is a lot that would need to be proved up to ultimately deny coverage but they can allege it, deny coverage and then you would need to hire an attorney to sue your insurance company...

Seems like a dumb risk to take to me. But you are an adult and you can choose.
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Old 09-26-2020, 02:52 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by senpai71 View Post
I bought a Schuberth C3 from the UK - the exact same helmet that was sold in the US (with a DOT sticker), but since it was bought in the UK, it obviously doesn't have a DOT sticker.

I'd be interested to know whether insurance could refuse to pay up for medical expenses, since, while that model of helmet has passed Snell and DOT, that specific helmet doesn't have a DOT sticker...
Call your insurance company and ask them
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Old 09-26-2020, 11:23 PM   #28
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Unlikely. Insurance companies don't enforce the law. If you're shot by a police officer while robbing a liquor store, the insurance company is not going to stop payment because you were performing a felony.

With perhaps less hyperbole, they're also not going to stop payment if you bin your pit bike slipping on some spilled nacho sauce while carrying a jerry can from the paddock to the hot pit, while wearing a t-shirt, shorts and flip flops (but no helmet).

As always, though, check with your insurance for details.
I recall seeing policy "criminal acts" exclusions.
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