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Old 12-14-2016, 07:26 AM   #61
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Old 12-28-2016, 12:13 PM   #62
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My girlfriend's kids are just about to take the course. I know the law changed since we took it two years ago. Do they need to get their learner's permit (take the written test) before taking the CMSP class? Does it matter how old you are in this regard?

Thanks.
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Old 12-28-2016, 02:10 PM   #63
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You just need a driver's license from what I recall?

I took the dmv permit test the friday between my thursday night class and my saturday morning range course.
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Old 12-28-2016, 03:13 PM   #64
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My girlfriend's kids are just about to take the course. I know the law changed since we took it two years ago. Do they need to get their learner's permit (take the written test) before taking the CMSP class? Does it matter how old you are in this regard?

Thanks.
Any individual, 15 1/2 years of age or older, who wishes to participate in a CMSP Motorcyclist Training Course or a CHP-approved Premier Motorcyclist Training Course Program must possess either a valid driver�s license, a California DMV-issued instruction permit, or a California DMV-issued identification card. Any person younger than 18 years must also have the written permission of his/her parent(s) or legal guardian. CMSP accepts out-of-state student credentials that are acceptable to the California Department of Motor Vehicles.
Any potential student who possesses a license that has been restricted due to one or more convictions for driving while impaired may not participate in any CMSP Motorcyclist Training Course or CMSP Premier Motorcyclist Training Course until all restrictions to the license have been lifted. All potential students will be asked to attest that they are not in possession of a restricted license.
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Old 01-14-2017, 12:19 PM   #65
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Here's how it worked for me. Took the 2-day CMSP course in September 2016, passed their written test (longer and harder than the DMV's test, but doesn't count toward a DMV waiver) but failed their riding test. They gave me two months from that day to come back to retake and pass it for free (and not have to retake the course, just show up for the test).

After that, you have to pay $139 to retake the riding test. I didn't have a bike so I eventually got one, but was not confident enough to ride the 30 minutes over the range to retake the test. Lost my free two-month window.

So I studied for the DMV written test, went down there (be advised you ALSO have to take the DMV written test for cars at the same time), paid them $33 and passed it. Phew. That gave me a learner's permit for a year. A learner's permit has restrictions: no freeways, passengers or night riding.

The DMV riding test is much harder than the CMSP test. I practiced, scheduled my DMV riding test, and failed.

Now I have two more tries at that DMV riding test (be prepared to be there for a few hours, even with an appointment) within my one-year learner's permit window to get my M1 endorsement. If I fail two more times, I have to retake the written test. The first riding test was free, next time I have to pay $7. Reasonable!

One last thing: CMSP will NOT give anyone a certificate stating you took their course UNLESS you pass the riding test. Meaning I cannot prove I even took that 20-hour course because I failed their riding test by one point. This annoys me only slightly less than having to deal with the DMV at this point.

Let me know if you have any other questions! I'm becoming a reluctant expert! I hope your GF's kids do well.
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Old 01-14-2017, 10:55 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by stephanotis View Post
Here's how it worked for me. Took the 2-day CMSP course in September 2016, passed their written test (longer and harder than the DMV's test, but doesn't count toward a DMV waiver) but failed their riding test. They gave me two months from that day to come back to retake and pass it for free (and not have to retake the course, just show up for the test).

After that, you have to pay $139 to retake the riding test. I didn't have a bike so I eventually got one, but was not confident enough to ride the 30 minutes over the range to retake the test. Lost my free two-month window.

So I studied for the DMV written test, went down there (be advised you ALSO have to take the DMV written test for cars at the same time), paid them $33 and passed it. Phew. That gave me a learner's permit for a year. A learner's permit has restrictions: no freeways, passengers or night riding.

The DMV riding test is much harder than the CMSP test. I practiced, scheduled my DMV riding test, and failed.

Now I have two more tries at that DMV riding test (be prepared to be there for a few hours, even with an appointment) within my one-year learner's permit window to get my M1 endorsement. If I fail two more times, I have to retake the written test. The first riding test was free, next time I have to pay $7. Reasonable!

One last thing: CMSP will NOT give anyone a certificate stating you took their course UNLESS you pass the riding test. Meaning I cannot prove I even took that 20-hour course because I failed their riding test by one point. This annoys me only slightly less than having to deal with the DMV at this point.

Let me know if you have any other questions! I'm becoming a reluctant expert! I hope your GF's kids do well.
Hope you are doing well. If I can help, let me know.

I suggest practicing the DMV keyhole test at any DMV after business hours.

As to the certificate after the CMSP course, you only get the certificate, a serially controlled document, if you pass the BOTH tests.

Some sites offer more riding time on their bikes for an extra fee. If you did not know this, I am sorry to tell you this at this late date. I have had several students that did not pass or that felt they needed more riding time before trying to ride on their own and they came back to the site to ride on the site's bikes on the site's range. Some students ask for coaching, some students just want to ride around in circles or practice starting, stopping, shifting, turning on their own.

If you are willing to ride over to Merced, I will happily spend some time riding with you to help you out.
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:20 AM   #67
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I have read through this post, and there is a lot of great information and feedback for the OP. I would like to ad a few things for everyone.

Many people as stated take the class to avoid the dreaded DMV test. Here in California the DMV test is not that hard, some weaving (Not offset like we have in the class) and of course the lollipop. This is a turn inside a 24' circle, way more room than is needed but it does scare people for some reason. If you can pass the class you can pass that test. In some states they take you out on the road. Not only take you on the road, but make you stop along the way and do tight circles in the street and well as figure 8 turns. This is still the case in New York.

The MTC class is 15 hours and as most agree it is not enough time for most people. Students do have options. There is also a premier class that is 24 hours, being longer it costs more money but continues forward where the 2 day program leaves off. Most sites do not offer it as most students are not willing to pay more and many do not want to spend the extra time either. The Option is there for Schools to offer the Premier and some instructors are certified to teach the premier as well. Extra ride time is also a nice option for a low cost and can help you work on specific area's that you need assistance under the watchful eyes of an Instructor as well.

More practice is always better as has been stated so many times here. You can never learn to much and there is always more to learn. There are so many great classes and programs out there from the MTC to Total Control IRC and ARC. There are on road schools, Dirt Schools and Adventure schools. You can do trials training, Supermoto training and even Track schools. Here in CA we have more riding training than should be allowed LOL. It does a body good.

I very much enjoy getting out and taking training to improve and learn more, sometimes that is by riding with better riders and Instructors who can teach me and sometimes that is with formal training. in 2015 I did a track class and also spent a day at the MX track getting some tips and pointers. Last year I visited Gary LaPlante and did a day of Trials training. I also took a Moto-Gymkana class. This year I am signed up for a Endure Cross class, and the year is still young so who knows what other opportunities lay ahead.

My Advice like the others is to take up the offers you have had here and get some experience under the watchful eye of fellow members and Instructors. We are very fortunate to have such a dedicated and caring community of riders as a resource. Never stop learning and seek out those folks and or classes that can also help you improve.

On another note my personal recommendation for new riders is as stated many times over and over, pick up a smaller used bike and ride it, when you are ready for something different there will always be someone else who needs that bike and resale is easy. Depending on your size and such these can be 250cc bikes or even 500cc bikes. there are so many to choose from, cruiser, standard, dual sport, sport etc. Many years ago I actually created a list for my students of all the makes and models of good used bike options and listed them by riding style, size and height. It was a great resource for students.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:38 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by stephanotis View Post

One last thing: CMSP will NOT give anyone a certificate stating you took their course UNLESS you pass the riding test. Meaning I cannot prove I even took that 20-hour course because I failed their riding test by one point. This annoys me only slightly less than having to deal with the DMV at this point.

Let me know if you have any other questions! I'm becoming a reluctant expert! I hope your GF's kids do well.
You may want to check with your insurance if you get a discount for completing the course. It may be worth it. Also got me a discount at Cycle Gear.
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:57 AM   #69
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You may want to check with your insurance if you get a discount for completing the course. It may be worth it. Also got me a discount at Cycle Gear.
but... they didn't complete the course if they failed.
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Old 01-26-2017, 12:35 PM   #70
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but... they didn't complete the course if they failed.
Yeah. Not cool, I say. Not even for the discounts, just to say LOOK, I WAS THERE!
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:33 AM   #71
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At some point, you'll achieve getting your permit or M1 license. All that means is that you've got some minimal skills to now practice in a safe environment in my opinion.

I highly recommend you go out to a safe parking lot and practice, practice and practice the skills you've learned so far. Do it until you're almost bored.

When my wife passed her MSF course, I got her to just practice getting more and more familiar with the bike, controls, cornering, stopping, etc. Just everything she learned in the course. After 4 separate days of 4 hours of practice, she radioed to me that she's now going to ride on the street and that I may follow her if I wished.

Because I made it very easy for her, encouraging her in very "baby" steps, her confidence stayed high and today a couple of years later, she's a relatively competent and confident street rider.

Congrats on taking your journey to more fun, confidence and safety in riding!
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:55 AM   #72
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When I finished the class our instructor made a point to say, "We are now qualified to operate a motorcycle at 15 mph in a parking lot."
Haha, I know that guy - what an ass he is!!!
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:32 PM   #73
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LOL, "ass" but true!
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:53 AM   #74
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I admit to not having read every post on this thread (really, just the first page or so of posts). But I have to say that, while I believe the safety course is a great thing to take and that the instructors are doing a good job at giving new riders a head-start, there is something else to consider here. Our culture as a whole has become progressively more systematized. Everyone seems to think in terms of "qualifications" these days. And this seems to be taking hold in the minds of many riders as well now that these courses have become a common route to the M1 (and, of course, the state loves that idea, as it's a clear path to more regulation as well as possibly increased revenue). But let's not forget that there are riders who have been riding around for years and years and got their license long ago or in another state and did not take any testing or class at all, ever. And a lot of them are damned good riders. People are not all the same. And they don't all learn the same way. Therefore one "right" way of doing things (e.g. a system of courses and tests) does not fit everyone (otherwise everyone would go to college and be able to do well there). Ultimately, learning in any domain is a personal experience (some learn this way, some learn that way, some learn the other way). Let's face it, not a single one of us learned to ride from someone else out on a range with cones. We may have gotten some good pointers there. But the real learning happens out in the world where one is with oneself, their motorcycle, and the road. And, yes, that involves danger, but life is itself dangerous. It is up to us to modulate the danger levels that we take on in our own lives. All the courses and tests in the world are not going to eliminate that reality. Yes, I believe most riders should find their way to these courses. There is a lot of great information and assistance provided in them. But my fear when I hear some of the views on the safety courses and how it should be this (e.g. required testing for everyone) or should be that (e.g. expanded to be a larger course of training and testing) is simply that it caters to the average of the bell curve (as any testing and qualification system does), leaving both sides (both the good and the bad) of that curve in the dust. At that point, it begins to become a hated thing by those left behind on either side of the curve, as it begins to encroach on individual liberty to do things one's own way. And not only that, but the general trend is that once it becomes a mandatory state apparatus, it arguably begins to decline in its quality and thus its usefulness (do you really think the DMV test requirements for a driver's license were a good indicator of whether or not you understood how to dirve?). Perhaps mandate that they be made aware, in explicit terms, of the dangers of what they are choosing to do when riding. But don't mandate that these courses be required for absolutely everyone. We can't put everyone in a bubble, we can't make everyone safer, and we can't even pretend that what we're doing to try and make them safer is actually working for everyone...nor should we. I suppose it really just comes down to a "freedom" argument in the end.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:06 PM   #75
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