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Old 04-21-2019, 05:40 PM   #16
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Love it so far. Thanks guys. So glad I didn’t get flamed
You posted on Friday evening before Easter weekend. Don't count your chickens just yet.
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:20 AM   #17
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There is no superior method. Late apex corner entry is used for several different reasons, as is early/er apex entry. The upsides you mention are correct. The downsides are that it also places you in more danger as if there IS someone coming the other way, and you are on the far left of a right hand lane, in a right hand corner, you are more exposed. Lowering speed is a much better way of avoiding running wide. Some corners want and need an early turn in and apex, it depends on too many things to make a one fits all rule. Generally speaking, lowering speed in blind corners is a far superior method to realize safety.
Excellent points. I would only caveat two things 1) that a delayed apex line and reduced entry speed are not mutually exclusive strategies and 2) while there is of course no universal solution to any problem, the purpose of the delayed apex line is to provide a better probability of a positive outcome in the greatest possible number of cases, in a constrained information, street-riding scenario.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:42 PM   #18
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Ill add a little note. Are you right handed ? Even on the track, a lot of right handed riders say they feel more uncomfortable in right hand turns. It could be due to the fact that your throttle and both brakes are on that side and arm and leg position is awkward. The main fix is practice.

Mad
I would add that if you're right-handed your left foot is your natural pivot foot, your left side your natural pivoting or rotating side..... when you throw a ball, swing a club or bat, etc. Your whole left side has been trained since you were little to rotate or turn to the left in ways that almost no one who is right-handed can replicate turning to the right.

I have no scientific evidence for this, just my own little pet theory.... one of these days I'm going to have to ask a left-handed person if they turn more easily to the right than the left.....
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:31 AM   #19
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I would add that if you're right-handed your left foot is your natural pivot foot, your left side your natural pivoting or rotating side..... when you throw a ball, swing a club or bat, etc. Your whole left side has been trained since you were little to rotate or turn to the left in ways that almost no one who is right-handed can replicate turning to the right.

I have no scientific evidence for this, just my own little pet theory.... one of these days I'm going to have to ask a left-handed person if they turn more easily to the right than the left.....
FWIW, that's a fascinating connection, and I've not seen it before, so kudos for original (at least to me) thinking.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:27 AM   #20
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FWIW, that's a fascinating connection, and I've not seen it before, so kudos for original (at least to me) thinking.
I hadn't either. It may be a factor, though I don't know where that leaves me; I'm left-handed, but do a lot of things right handed. I throw, write and eat left handed, but swing a bat, shoot and fight right handed.

For me personally, I think the relative comfort has mostly to do with what I'm getting the most practice at. Some local tracks are decidedly left handed, like Laguna. Whenever I ride there, I'm feeling pretty good in lefts at the end of the day.

A more recent factor for me is that due to the installation of some "aftermarket parts" in my neck a couple of years ago, I can more easily look into lefthand than righthand turns. Where I previously didn't feel like I had a real bias one way or the other, I do now.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:14 PM   #21
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This is thrice told advice, but track time is a great way to find your bearings in corners. Personally, I had a lot of right hand anxiety (especially downhill...yikes!) for a number of years. One day at Thunderhill, and turns 3, 5b and 14 took the fear right out of me! I carried that confidence into the street and genuinely enjoy right hand turns these days.
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:22 PM   #22
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Same with what Charmed said. One track day and my fear was gone. I've had the right-turn anxiety for my past 10 years of riding. Had a lowside on a scooter on the right side and that probably scarred me.

I recently went to Sonoma raceway with my r1 though and it's heavy on right-turns. I also practiced techniques like grabbing the bar so that the orientation of your hand is almost parallel to the handle bar. I'm now more comfortable with right turns than left according to my tire tread
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:36 PM   #23
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Track riding definitely helps neutralize any turning bias.

Blind turns exist everywhere, even on track - it may not warrant a late apex necessarily. Slowing down, finding good visual markers, and then building up speed with the guidance of those markers works well. The vanishing point is a good 'universal' visual marker that can make all of that come together sooner.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:21 AM   #24
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The vanishing point is a good 'universal' visual marker that can make all of that come together sooner.
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:26 AM   #25
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If no one has mentioned it, many riders have totally different positions on the left and right turns. It's not uncommon.

I'd play with your body position and, also, use the "power steering" method from California Superbike School. push in on the tank, with the outside leg. Not only does it make the bike turn easier, but it can also be used to adjust the input if you're a bit reticent to turn. It makes things less complictated.

Also, I'm sure this was mentioned but, look where you want to go. People often get absorbed with overcomplicating turns because they are a bit afraid. I found that looking where I wanted to go cured this, in my early racing days. I allowed me to focus on things like points of reference and where I wanted to be mid corner and exit, without adding unwanted steering inputs.

Psychology is the biggest barrier to smooth riding, IMHO, and its often easily overcome.

Ride safe!
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:29 AM   #26
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I would also suggest riding the Pace, in the canyons. There's no prize for being fastest to Alice's, but you can become a better rider.

There is a reason the the Code School has a drill in which you can only use 3rd gear and no brakes, when riding around the track. the same lessons can be learned, in the canyons, at a slower pace.

Plus, it's fun.

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pace
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:53 AM   #27
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Your point about riding the pace is a good one.

The purpose of the CSS no brakes drill is not to have rider learn at a slower pace. It is specifically to help riders develop their sense of speed for turn entry.
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Old 05-04-2019, 04:05 PM   #28
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Your point about riding the pace is a good one.

The purpose of the CSS no brakes drill is not to have rider learn at a slower pace. It is specifically to help riders develop their sense of speed for turn entry.
I actually didn't say that the drill's reason is to go slow. I thought the drill was meant to get you to not focus so much on the braking, and more on the setup and turn in. What I said was that you can learn the same lessons, at a slower pace on the road vs on the track.

It was more to illustrate why the Pace is a good way to learn motorcycle control, without the pressure to be fast. I believe the pressure to be fast in the canyons is ridiculous, in the first place. No trophy for canyon riding and the downsides far outweigh the upside.

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Old 05-04-2019, 08:47 PM   #29
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All of this. And right-handers are automatically sharper than left-handers if you drive on the right.

Right-handers are my weakness in America.

Left-handers are my weakness in UK.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:44 AM   #30
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All of this. And right-handers are automatically sharper than left-handers if you drive on the right.

Right-handers are my weakness in America.

Left-handers are my weakness in UK.
On a two lane canyon road, the sharpness shouldn’t be that different, if at all.

I think the blind part of it leads you to believe that.

On regular streets, yes.
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