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Old 11-13-2019, 08:18 AM   #46
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Regarding the smooth application of the brakes,
I picked up "don't surprise the tire" somewhere and that's been pithy enough to stick.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:29 AM   #47
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at the track, I think inexperienced riders have a very hard time building brake pressure. on a sport bike with quality tires, if that rear tire isnt almost off the ground and the forks arent close to bottom, you arent pulling the lever hard enough. it doesnt take more than 2 fingers with quality pads, but it does take some conscious effort to actually pull the lever. given that braking is 1/5th as strong on the street normally, I wouldn't be surprised if most riders deal with this. hell, thats exactly where most track riders learned to brake so lightly.

as an exercise - pull the lever smoothly, notice that u arent out of control, then pull the lever harder. keep pulling harder until you start to feel things going poorly or you are just about stopped. if you feel the rear tire getting light or some light vibrations from the front end, back off the lever just a touch. now uve found your max braking.
What do light vibrations from the front end indicate? The front tire beginning to lock? The forks bottoming?
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:54 PM   #48
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What do light vibrations from the front end indicate? The front tire beginning to lock? The forks bottoming?
if u took the right approach to this, it will be near impossible to lock the front tire (in dry good conditions) and ull feel fork issues first. by that, I mean applying the brakes to correctly load the front tire and smoothly adding brake pressure. this should allow u to feel the front end just touch bottom before it slams into it and reduce the chance of chatter. small braking bumps feel a lot worse when you are close to bottom as well, so that'll create more noticeable oscillations too.

of course, if u took the wrong approach or pushed too far, front grip will be reduced and its possible to lock the front tire.

honestly, feedback of stuff going wrong is very hard to describe. I picked the term "light vibrations" cuz I couldn't think of anything better. those vibrations/oscillations apply in all directions, including the bars turning. the only other feedback indicator I can think of for front grip is how easy the bars turn. if the bars turn easier than normal, the front tire is starting to slide.
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Old 03-02-2020, 06:38 PM   #49
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I'm practicing smooth stops now at De Anza college every Sunday. Yay! So, when do I shift down to 1st gear? After I have come to a complete stop or before? Is the engine disengaged when coming to a stop?

Last edited by sportsluvr; 03-02-2020 at 06:39 PM..
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Old 03-02-2020, 11:32 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by sportsluvr View Post
I'm practicing smooth stops now at De Anza college every Sunday. Yay! So, when do I shift down to 1st gear? After I have come to a complete stop or before? Is the engine disengaged when coming to a stop?
You should be in first gear before the wheels stop rolling.
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Old 03-03-2020, 11:22 PM   #51
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At least for myself, I find that throwing in some rear brake gives me a smoother stopping experience.
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Old 03-04-2020, 07:53 AM   #52
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At least for myself, I find that throwing in some rear brake gives me a smoother stopping experience.
Well, that would make me use both my feet and hands to do something or other when trying to perform a smooth stop. I'm trying to see if I can cut down the variables involved.
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Old 03-04-2020, 07:54 AM   #53
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You should be in first gear before the wheels stop rolling.
Do you totally disengage the clutch while coasting under brakes? Thanks.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:51 AM   #54
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Do you totally disengage the clutch while coasting under brakes? Thanks.
If you mean, pull in the clutch, then no.
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Old 03-05-2020, 12:13 PM   #55
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If you mean, pull in the clutch, then no.
Yup, the only time you'll worry about disengaging the clutch is if you are rolling to a stop. If that's the case, You will want to.

But in an extreme emergency, your modulation of the front brake ( except in extreme impaired traction events) is what counts. Everything else is secondary.

The front brake = 20 pound sledge hammer
The rear brake = 16 oz finishing hammer, in most instances.
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Old 03-05-2020, 12:26 PM   #56
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Well said Ernie
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Old 03-05-2020, 01:20 PM   #57
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There are several instances in light traffic at intersections where I just coast in with the clutch in downshifting all the way, rather than releasing the clutch each time.

All a matter of how fast I'm decelerating on a 50MPH street with a stoplight.
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:19 PM   #58
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There is no reason whatsoever to cycle the clutch squeeze it in and release it as you downshift the bike coming to a stop. And there's about a hundred reasons why it's a bad idea. The first and foremost is that it's more complicated than it needs to be to stop. second there's nothing to gain by cycling the clutch. Each time you cycle the clutch you change the traction. The engine is designed to accelerate you forward your brakes do a much better, smoother job of stopping you and slowing you than your engine does.

Since smoothness is very important in using your motorcycle controls, especially in a quick stop, it is important to practice your regular stops very similarly to a quick stop. And in a quick stop you are not going to be downshifting and cycling the clutch because that upsets your traction because it upsets the suspension. As I said before it's a lot more complicated than squeezing the clutch holding it in and applying the front brakes smoothly and progressively and light pressure on the rear to come to a nice smooth stop whether it's a quick stop or regular stop. As you are slowing, you should be downshifting to first, but the clutch stays in, all the way from the first downshift to the stop.

There are a lot of riders that think they're going to think their way out of a quick stop, and all the experts on the subject say such thinking is delusional and very unrealistic.

When you are threatened by an SUV cutting you off, you're going to go with whatever it is your habit is with stopping.

So therefore if your regular stop is squeeze the clutch and hold it in and then squeeze the front brake and progressively and smoothly and light pressure to the rear then that is probably what you're going to do when that SUV cuts you off.

Yes this is a bit of a rant and that's because there's a huge myth out there about using engine braking to a stop. And engine breaking to a stop needs to stop because there's no reason at all to do it.

This is the technique taught by MSF and total control it's also the technique taught in just about every book on the subject.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:08 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by motomania2007 View Post
When you are threatened by an SUV cutting you off, you're going to go with whatever it is your habit is with stopping.
Speaking of this.

I was going home one day, and in front of me was a fellow on a scooter.

One of the smaller ones, but I swear it was bigger than a 50cc.

Anyways, his stopping technique was pure Flintstones. He simply dragged his feet. A combination of engine braking and feet braking.

I told myself "That guy is going to die one day". He's going to learn that his feet can't stop him fast enough, and that's all he's going to know because that's all he's practicing.

Craziest thing I've seen.
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Old 03-06-2020, 03:15 PM   #60
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clutches arent on/off switches and shouldn't be treated as such. figure it out.
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