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Old 03-06-2020, 03:49 PM   #61
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My bike idles at 9mph in first gear. So lets say I am stopping in first gear from 30mph. If I only apply the brakes and cruise in first gear while stopping, anything lower than 9mph and I am clearly fighting momentum as well as the power put to the rear wheel from idle. At some point the clutch lever must be pulled in or I am just extending my stopping distance and eventually will stall the bike if I wait too long. So the question is when to pull that clutch lever in. I think there are a lot of different reasonable answers out there but each rider should find what works best for them and their bike.
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Old 03-06-2020, 06:32 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by stangmx13 View Post
clutches arent on/off switches and shouldn't be treated as such. figure it out.
This. Way this.

George, I've never had a false neutral I liked...and that is essentially what pulling the clutch in all the way is. Too much load on the front with the clutch in and too little on the rear, IME...even in street riding. Like Robert said, people need to get comfortable working/ feathering the clutch on decelerations. For new riders, I get the idea behind not giving them too much to do at one time. Once over the hump of learning to ride though, I don't see more control in pulling the clutch all the way in and freewheeling to a stop.

Unless I understood your post incorrectly?
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Old 03-07-2020, 12:16 AM   #63
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This. Way this.

George, I've never had a false neutral I liked...and that is essentially what pulling the clutch in all the way is. Too much load on the front with the clutch in and too little on the rear, IME...even in street riding. Like Robert said, people need to get comfortable working/ feathering the clutch on decelerations. For new riders, I get the idea behind not giving them too much to do at one time. Once over the hump of learning to ride though, I don't see more control in pulling the clutch all the way in and freewheeling to a stop.

Unless I understood your post incorrectly?
What possible benefit is adding the complexity of feathering the clutch while you're stopping in a quick stop?

None that I can think of same way with anyone else that's written a book on the topic.

It's a lot simpler to simply squeeze the clutch and keep it in while applying both front and rear brakes smoothly to the stop and downshifting to make sure you're in first gear before you stop.

There's nothing to be gained from working the clutch. The rear brake is already doing all of the stopping that the rear tire is going to do because the rear brake is using all the rear tire traction and the rear brake is a lot easier to control than using the engine to brake.
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Old 03-07-2020, 11:13 AM   #64
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I think you two probably agree. Clutch in for emergency full stops, downshifting for normal stops or slowing.

The fact is, we rarely make emergency stops, thatís why they should be practiced regularly. 99% of my riding Iím downshifting while braking, ready to go if needed.
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Old 03-07-2020, 03:34 PM   #65
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I think you two probably agree. Clutch in for emergency full stops, downshifting for normal stops or slowing.

The fact is, we rarely make emergency stops, thatís why they should be practiced regularly. 99% of my riding Iím downshifting while braking, ready to go if needed.
There should only be one technique because your "normal" stopping technique will be what you do when you need to do a quick stop such as getting cut off by a car.

This has been shown in many many ways and is why people that do dangerous things drill on correct technique over and over again.

There isn't any reason to make stopping more complicated by cycling the clutch with each downshift as you are slowing to a stop. There is no gain, so why do it.
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Old 03-07-2020, 04:01 PM   #66
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There should only be one technique because your "normal" stopping technique will be what you do when you need to do a quick stop such as getting cut off by a car.

This has been shown in many many ways and is why people that do dangerous things drill on correct technique over and over again.

There isn't any reason to make stopping more complicated by cycling the clutch with each downshift as you are slowing to a stop. There is no gain, so why do it.
I totally disagree. No way am I blipping and downshifting in an emergency stop. In fact, it's all I can do to pull in the clutch. Ask me how I know....

I do think there is a benefit to having the bike in a gear appropriate for the speed you are traveling for normal stops. This allows you to accelerate efficiently if the situation changes. You're in the proper gear and ready to go.
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Old 03-07-2020, 05:57 PM   #67
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It's a lot simpler to simply squeeze the clutch and keep it in while applying both front and rear brakes smoothly to the stop and downshifting to make sure you're in first gear before you stop.
This is exactly what I'm doing now but without any application of the rear brakes. I'm gradually adding the latter in my practice sessions.

Another dynamic I have experienced is that, while coming to a stop should the light now change to green, I'm in the wrong gear at times.
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Old 03-07-2020, 06:55 PM   #68
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slipping the clutch while downshifting allows for more positive shifts and will decrease any change of traction should the clutch ever be re-engaged. if slipped the right amount, theres no drawback. it doesnt affect stopping distance and offers those benefits.

this thread is titled "smooth stopping tricks", not "emergency stopping tricks".
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:05 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by stangmx13 View Post
slipping the clutch while downshifting allows for more positive shifts and will decrease any change of traction should the clutch ever be re-engaged. if slipped the right amount, theres no drawback. it doesnt affect stopping distance and offers those benefits.

this thread is titled "smooth stopping tricks", not "emergency stopping tricks".
Ask any expert or consult any riding curriculum and they all say your quick stops will substantially mirror how you do your normal routine stops. So discussing how to effectively stop quickly is very relevant to how to stop for routine stops.
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:08 PM   #70
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I totally disagree. No way am I blipping and downshifting in an emergency stop. In fact, it's all I can do to pull in the clutch. Ask me how I know....

I do think there is a benefit to having the bike in a gear appropriate for the speed you are traveling for normal stops. This allows you to accelerate efficiently if the situation changes. You're in the proper gear and ready to go.
Why are you blipping at all? Totally unnecessary. The clutch lever stays in so there is no need to blip the throttle.

You can and should have the proper gear for current speed. This is why you don't squeeze the clutch at say 50mph and immediately click the shifter several times to first gear ...
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:26 PM   #71
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Ask any expert or consult any riding curriculum and they all say your quick stops will substantially mirror how you do your normal routine stops. So discussing how to effectively stop quickly is very relevant to how to stop for routine stops.
Yes I know. And youíve made sure everyone else knows too. Now get back on topic and stop ruining the thread.
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:29 PM   #72
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Why are you blipping at all? Totally unnecessary. The clutch lever stays in so there is no need to blip the throttle.

You can and should have the proper gear for current speed. This is why you don't squeeze the clutch at say 50mph and immediately click the shifter several times to first gear ...
If u can’t downshift to first at 50mph, you haven’t mastered braking or clutch control. It’s def not easy but can be done very smoothly. Keep working on it.
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:56 PM   #73
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Yes I know. And youíve made sure everyone else knows too. Now get back on topic and stop ruining the thread.
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If u canít downshift to first at 50mph, you havenít mastered braking or clutch control. Itís def not easy but can be done very smoothly. Keep working on it.
Did you really just chastise someone to get back on-topic, then immediately comment on downshifting into first at 50mph?

OP isn't asking about advanced (calculus), or even intermediate (algebra) skills. He's asking beginner (addition/subtraction) level stuff. Trying to teach or talk him into high level skills is doing him a disservice.

Jeebus there sure is a lot of 'I know what's best' in this thread. All of you (both of you) need to relax a bit. This thread is looking at the OP's question in the rearview mirror.
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Old 03-07-2020, 10:09 PM   #74
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Did you really just chastise someone to get back on-topic, then immediately comment on downshifting into first at 50mph?

OP isn't asking about advanced (calculus), or even intermediate (algebra) skills. He's asking beginner (addition/subtraction) level stuff. Trying to teach or talk him into high level skills is doing him a disservice.

Jeebus there sure is a lot of 'I know what's best' in this thread. All of you (both of you) need to relax a bit. This thread is looking at the OP's question in the rearview mirror.
Seems on topic to me, esp since it contributes to my point that one should use the clutch properly to contribute to smooth braking. I also typed that to call attention to the fact it was a bad example since itís possible and an intermediate technique.

Ya the OP isnít there yet. I didnít tell the OP to practice that and wouldnít yet. But I def think one should know what is possible in these situations, both in the tools available and outcomes. Telling the OP to always pull the clutch to the bar will handicap their learning. Telling the OP to consider slipping the clutch opens up possibilities that will be used later, maybe even soon.
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Old 03-08-2020, 04:21 PM   #75
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Ask any expert or consult any riding curriculum and they all say your quick stops will substantially mirror how you do your normal routine stops. So discussing how to effectively stop quickly is very relevant to how to stop for routine stops.
Youíre a CMSP instructor, yes? Do you teach your students to lean into the curves? Of course you do. How about a different type of turning, swerves? I bet you teach them to remain neutral on the bike and let it move underneath them.

These are different types of turning, just like there are different types of braking. Practice them all. Iím as likely to downshift through the gears in an emergency braking situation as I am to hang off the bike during a swerve. Even beginners need to understand that different situations require different techniques.
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