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Old 09-20-2021, 11:35 PM   #1
magician
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Solo Cornering crash (new rider)

It was about 7:45 pm this evening, starting to get dark so visibility was low on this road. I left office and decided not to take 280 and instead this back road as it's more fun to ride the twisties. I'm also a new rider - just under a month riding this bike that I got recently and sucks to crash it like this.

Good News: I crashed by myself, there was no collision, no other vehicle on the road. I was wearing gloves, armour (jacket) and a good helmet (see attached pic) that saved upper-body injury.

Bad News: Bruised my knee, still hurting as I was not wearing riding pants or knee armour. The relatively new Yahama R3 got damaged and I'm afraid it will cost me a lot to repair

Here is what happened:

This evening as I was coming in too fast, went outside the main road (probably also target fixated), and then when I applied the front brake, the bike slipped under me and I hit the road (slid a bit) and the bike went to the right side on the ditch. As I hit the road, bumped my head once but not too hard, thanks to the helmet (see the helmet pic) but did injure my knee (not too bad, just bruise and scrapes)

I had to hail the cars passing by once I got on my feet to help me lift the bike up as it was too heavy. Thankfully one person pulled over and helped me lift the bike up.

Thanks also to a fellow motorcyclist who later came up saw me stranded as the bike would not start, it was leaking oil. He asked if I was okay, need any help. I was luckily okay and tried a two truck but to my surprise, after a few minutes bike started and I decided to ride it home, even though the gear shifter got bent and was hard to upshift (about 20 miles). One the way stopped at Walgreens to pick up medication to apply to my knee etc.

I would really appreciate your advise on:

1. How do I break during a corner when I realize I'm coming in too fast ?

2. Now I am afraid of how much it will cost in repairs. I do have insurance that should cover it, would you recommend using the insurance coverage (the downside being the future premium will most likely go up) or suggest pay it out of pocket? Where does one get parts for less?

3. Is the helmet any good now? It has some scratches on the windshield and above it. Is it still safe to wear this helmet or not? It was a pricey one ~$650 SHOE RF-1400 and I just got it not even 30 days ago.

4. I now have fear of cornering, especially in twisties? How can I overcome this fear as I still want to ride the bike and not give up riding?

5. Protective gear for the lower body? Any recommendations on riding jeans with armor etc to protect if one falls.

pictures: https://imgur.com/a/mjb58YZ

Thanks for your constructive criticism and ride safe with the proper gear, it helps
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Last edited by magician; 09-20-2021 at 11:45 PM..
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Old 09-21-2021, 01:38 AM   #2
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A few quick things:

1.) Keep your eyes up and moving as much as you can. Look as far down the road as you can, but don't lock in to any one place when "looking".

2.) I'm guessing you looked to right where you crashed, rode the bike to the crash site and then, crashed. Don't do that. I'm also pretty sure when you did drift to the outside of the lane, you locked you arms and stiffened every muscle in your body. This stops the bike from steering no matter what you do. Do Not (ever) look where you think you're going to crash. ALWAYS look the inside of the corner and breathe...that's where you want to go.

3.) There's some things to be said on line choice, but that's not what crashed you. You needed to look down the road and tried to make the corner. Never give up on a corner, even when you're on the ground.

4.) Saw you post for some instruction and that's a really good idea. Parking lots are great as is the Z2 road rider program (which I'm biased and think is superior). Both are going to be excellent for you. Do both, if you can.

5.) www.ebay.com for some parts, but even better, post in the BARF wanted classifieds and search craigslist. Post a parts list here too. The Racing community has lots of resources for crash parts needed. Post in the AFM forum (classifieds). Someone has parts at their house...

6.) Don't get discouraged. If I told you how many times I've put the bike on the ground, you'll feel this is a small bump in the road to your riding. Ironically, it'll keep you safer having this happen so early, IMO.

Have fun and fix the bike. R3's are pretty easy to fix. Glad you're ok. That pole looks creepy...all I see on the street now are things to impact. Ugh!
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Last edited by Holeshot; 09-21-2021 at 01:40 AM..
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Old 09-21-2021, 05:46 AM   #3
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I saw your other thread on cornering.

Like Holeshot and you already mentioned, it seems like target fixation was an issue. Look at where you want to go, not at what you don't want to hit.

You panicked and grabbed the front brake in gravel. This will dump the bike. Train on threshold braking so you can brake hard without locking up the wheels, to try and avoid a hazard.

35 MPH is not even close to being too fast for that curve. Even for a new rider. It is on the slow side. Have you taken any training? Are you aware of what counter steering is? As long as you are traveling over 10 MPH or so, push on the left bar to go left. Don't try to turn the handlebars to the left. I'm not sure if that's what you did or not.

I'd recommend not riding at night until you get some more saddle time. Or, if you do, stick to freeways and the like. Hazards and road conditions are harder to see. It can get wet, or slick. And the deer come out at dusk in the hills.

To be safe, it's best to replace the helmet. There could be an internal hairline crack that you can't see, which could affect the integrity of the helmet if you should go down again.
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:24 AM   #4
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First 3 months of learning to ride seem to be the most dangerous! At least it was for me 40 years ago for me! My advice for new riders is always go ride a dirt bike first. I wouldn't fix a thing if the bike is fine mechanically. I wear a Areostich. I learned best following experienced riders, but always ride your own ride. I like the twisty where speed never gets too fast to sharpen cornering skills.
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by magician View Post
It was about 7:45 pm this evening, starting to get dark so visibility was low on this road. I left office and decided not to take 280 and instead this back road as it's more fun to ride the twisties. I'm also a new rider - just under a month riding this bike that I got recently and sucks to crash it like this.
Several things here.

Dark, new rider, strange road. Those all count against you. Later in the day, you're also probably tired -- more tired than when you're fresh on the day.

Right now, especially at night, stick to roads you more familiar with, especially nowadays where most modern streets are lit like daylight.

Something else to consider on this road at this time of day, what if you had encountered a deer?

Quote:
This evening as I was coming in too fast, went outside the main road (probably also target fixated), and then when I applied the front brake, the bike slipped under me and I hit the road (slid a bit) and the bike went to the right side on the ditch.
As everyone else said, yes, this is classic target fixation. All we can do is keep talking about keeping your eyes moving, but as you experienced, it's easier said than done. Especially on a new rider. It's a new habit that takes awhile to learn and help make automatic. Incidents like this actually help you, since you faired well physically, as you now felt what this is like. Now you have a better idea of "what not to do". You just graduated from book learning, to field experience. We're all so glad you're OK.

Quote:
1. How do I break during a corner when I realize I'm coming in too fast ?
You should be routinely using both brakes. Yes, the bulk is in the front brake, and many new riders neglect it. If you have to choose one, the front's the one to grab, but you should also be using the rear brake. Shorter stopping distance, a bit more control. The problem here was that you grabbed too much too fast and lost the front, reacting too late to release the front brake. With the rear brake engaged, you would have felt that the bike was still slowing down as you released the front brake. With just the front, as soon as you start to release it you feel like you're speeding up -- which is what your brain is saying NOO!!! too.

I had this happen to me. I was on a road, saw a turn off that I wanted to take, but missed it, so I swerved in to a turn out to turn around. The turnout was coated in gray gravel exactly the same color as the aged, gray asphalt. Grabbed my front brake and "Whoa! Nothings happening!". I managed to modulate, keep the bike up, but the rear I kept on and the back end swerved some. But that's ok. Its was key to getting me stopped before I reached the edge. And yes, there's lots of stuff going on in your head at times like this and you are literally overwhelmed. Practice will help reduce that. I believe I sucked a large portion of the seat cover into my colon that day.

Quote:
3. Is the helmet any good now? It has some scratches on the windshield and above it. Is it still safe to wear this helmet or not? It was a pricey one ~$650 SHOE RF-1400 and I just got it not even 30 days ago.
Maybe, probably. What you felt, and how hard you hit are two different values. It's very difficult to assess the status of a helmet after a crash. I won't say what do here. But it's certainly no fun replacing a brand new helmet. All I can say is think about how far the $650 would have gone in medical bills had you not had it.

Quote:
4. I now have fear of cornering, especially in twisties? How can I overcome this fear as I still want to ride the bike and not give up riding?
Slow down. The fear will pass.


youtu.be/lX8GG3dnsp8

I had a nasty get off one night, much like you -- late, strange road. I stopped by the emergency room instead of Walgreens.

And I rode the bike home.

The hospital was 15 miles from my house. It took me 2 hours to get home. Motorcycles move -- a LOT -- while we ride them. I was feeling every single twitch. Every bump and wiggles was setting off alarms. You're afraid of turns. I was afraid of everything else.

But, it passes, and you get back on. In that case, I honestly didn't trust the bike again, bought another and sold it. That was just me and my relationship with the bike. The bike was fine.

Heal up, when folks mentioned that motorcycling can be dangerous, this is what they're talking about. You are in the peak of the cohort for things like this.

Stay alert, be careful, have fun. It'll all be different after 10,000 miles.
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Old 09-21-2021, 07:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magician View Post
3. Is the helmet any good now? It has some scratches on the windshield and above it. Is it still safe to wear this helmet or not? It was a pricey one ~$650 SHOE RF-1400 and I just got it not even 30 days ago.
Sorry to hear about your mishap and I hope you recover quick. I'll let the more experienced riders provide riding feedback, but I want to let you know that Shoei offers free helmet testing after you've gone down.

https://www.shoei-helmets.com/service-support/

Adding the text for those who don't want to click through

"TO HAVE YOUR HELMET IMPACT INSPECTED FOR FREE*, PLEASE SHIP IT TO:

3002 Dow Ave, Suite 128, Tustin, CA 92780 Attn: Inspections


Be sure to include a letter with a brief description of the issue with the helmet, as well as a daytime phone number and return address. Once we receive the helmet it will take 1-3 business days to complete the inspection. Upon completion the helmet is returned to you with a letter stating the findings of our inspection. Your helmet is returned to you if it passes the inspection or not. There is no charge for the inspection, and the UPS Ground return shipping is free. To see a video on how to pack your helmet for shipping, click here.


*For USA and Canada residents only."
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Old 09-21-2021, 07:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holeshot View Post
A few quick things:

1.) Keep your eyes up and moving as much as you can. Look as far down the road as you can, but don't lock in to any one place when "looking".

2.) I'm guessing you looked to right where you crashed, rode the bike to the crash site and then, crashed. Don't do that. I'm also pretty sure when you did drift to the outside of the lane, you locked you arms and stiffened every muscle in your body. This stops the bike from steering no matter what you do. Do Not (ever) look where you think you're going to crash. ALWAYS look the inside of the corner and breathe...that's where you want to go.

3.) There's some things to be said on line choice, but that's not what crashed you. You needed to look down the road and tried to make the corner. Never give up on a corner, even when you're on the ground.

4.) Saw you post for some instruction and that's a really good idea. Parking lots are great as is the Z2 road rider program (which I'm biased and think is superior). Both are going to be excellent for you. Do both, if you can.

5.) www.ebay.com for some parts, but even better, post in the BARF wanted classifieds and search craigslist. Post a parts list here too. The Racing community has lots of resources for crash parts needed. Post in the AFM forum (classifieds). Someone has parts at their house...

6.) Don't get discouraged. If I told you how many times I've put the bike on the ground, you'll feel this is a small bump in the road to your riding. Ironically, it'll keep you safer having this happen so early, IMO.

Have fun and fix the bike. R3's are pretty easy to fix. Glad you're ok. That pole looks creepy...all I see on the street now are things to impact. Ugh!

THIS 100%

Mad
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:57 AM   #8
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I had the same thing happen to me when I was a newer rider. I was following some friends up HWY 9 and took a corner to fast for my skill and wound up target fixating and then applying too much brake and high siding.

My only advice would be to learn to look where you want to go. I would force myself to look through the turn every time I rode after that until I got better at it and still made a conscious effort to do it every time.

I had a fear of making left turns after the crash due to is being a left hand turn I crashed on originally. So what I did was is find a nice medium difficulty turn on my way home and everyday I would ride it. I would practice everything looking through the turn and then I would gradually increase my speed through the turn a little more everyday until I got comfortable doing it again with decent speed. Once I got comfortable I went back over Hwy 9 with my friend and made it through the turn on my terms and once I did that I got over my issue.

This was just my experience and I hope you don't quit riding it is a great pastime.
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Old 09-21-2021, 11:27 AM   #9
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The most important thing to accomplish braking while turning is proper brake application. We never stab the brake suddenly and quickly. The very first instant of brake application must be light and you must apply the brake smoothly to let the front tire grip. Then you can build more brake pressure after that. To put that into numbers, a good brake pressure application might look like this (in percent of max brake): 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, 30. Notice how it starts light and slow, then builds.

Aside from all that, this does not look like a corner that cannot be taken at 35mph. As others have said, always look to the inside of the corner and try to take the corner. Set yourself up for success. Do not give up before even trying.
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Old 09-21-2021, 12:16 PM   #10
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Have a couple of buddies help you with this. Lean the bike over until some hard part like a foot peg or a center stand touches the ground. This is the lean angle your bike is capable of.
Never give up on a corner.
Others here have given you great advice.
Target fixation is the bane of new riders.
Whether you pay out of pocket or through your insurance is a numbers crunch. Get an estimate from a shop for the repairs and then talk to your insurance company.
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Old 09-21-2021, 12:39 PM   #11
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You're getting plenty of good input here; I'll offer a couple of thoughts:

First, judging entry speed is a crucial skill to develop. You should have a good idea of whether you're into a corner too fast before you're really in the corner. A useful way to develop your sense of entry speed is to try to set your entry speed without shifting or using the brakes. This forces you to pay attention to your speed long before you arrive at the corner.

If it's absolutely necessary to use the brakes, use them (rather than go in too fast and fall down). You'll still find that by slowing early and giving yourself more time and distance to adjust your speed, you will reduce the drama of turn entry and improve your ability to judge entry speed.

Secondly, if you do get into the turn and find you have to brake, taper the brakes on (as has been said). Realize too that there is an inverse relationship between how much lean angle you have and how hard you can brake. To slow faster early in the turn, relax the lean angle as you come into the brakes, then add lean angle as necessary to make the turn while tapering off brake pressure.

The brakes can easily fool you into thinking you're going faster than you are. You can very often let off the brakes earlier than you think and the bike will hold its line.

We haven't established whether you know how to steer effectively. Have you had any training at all yet?
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Old 09-21-2021, 04:50 PM   #12
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Unhappy Ouch!

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. A lot of good advice above ^ in this thread.

My advice: get some training and more experience.

Take a CMSP or other moto safety course https://motorcyclesafetyca.com/

Look on the internet for safety info and videos https://www.msf-usa.org/

Practice exercises in big, empty parking lots

Check resources on this forum
1 Rider https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/f...play.php?f=107
Riding Skills https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/f...splay.php?f=93

Look for newbie-friendly group rides

Post up on this forum if you want to get together with others for practice and skill-building.

Or PM me and I'll post a ride in your area.
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:04 PM   #13
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Glad you're alright magician. If you end up opening a claim, ask if they'll cover your gear. If you decide not to call your insurance, I wouldn't bother replacing the cosmetic damage. Yea, check on ebay for used parts and use barf and the r3 forum for help if needed.

Once you get healed up, if you're feeling up to it, I'll come over and we'll review everything that was mentioned above. We'll get you up and running again.
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:27 PM   #14
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Old 09-22-2021, 08:51 PM   #15
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My assumption you fall victim to target fixation. Been there... it sucks, glad you got out mostly unharmed.

I would say focus on working on brakes, learn about trail braking and practice it every turn - it will save your butt more times than you think, and it will actually put you in control every time when you go into corner.

I do not recommend trying to figure out entry speed without using brakes, until you know how to use brakes. Brakes probably the most important control on your bike and you should feel comfortable using it!

Listen Ken Hill Podcasts, starting from first one - https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/f...d.php?t=490546

Get books to read on:
* Sport Riding Techniques: How To Develop Real World Skills for Speed, Safety, and Confidence on the Street and Track - Nick Ieantasch
* Smooth Riding the Pridmore Way

Not a fan of Twist of the wrist, found it quite cryptic for new rider and whole idea of "rolling on throttle through the corner" is somewhat dangerous.

Get some extra training (things like Intermediate Riding Course, Z2 road riding program) and then try to get to track.
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