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Old 02-16-2015, 12:55 PM   #16
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We've had a terrible weekend very early in the season. The above is a reminder on the BARF policy regarding the nature of posts in RIP threads. Please bear in mind.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:00 PM   #17
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good that you're finally addressing this. i never understood why dickbutt and girls in underwear was forbidden but it was totally okay and not even a warning for someone to be racist or homophobic oh barf. its a step in the right direction.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:53 PM   #18
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good that you're finally addressing this. i never understood why dickbutt and girls in underwear was forbidden but it was totally okay and not even a warning for someone to be racist or homophobic oh barf. its a step in the right direction.
check the date on the OP
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:56 PM   #19
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check the date on the OP
well shit. then i guess nothing had ever been done about this hahaha. oh well, that's the dichotomy of barf i guess. its kind of like the united states in that sense where no one has a problem with showing their kids movies with gunfights and people getting blasted or overt racism, but when a pair of tits comes on the screen "OHMAHGOSH COVER YOUR EYES LITTLE BILLY!!!"

gives me a big wtf and makes me not want to bring others to this message board.
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:31 PM   #20
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well shit. then i guess nothing had ever been done about this hahaha. oh well, that's the dichotomy of barf i guess. its kind of like the united states in that sense where no one has a problem with showing their kids movies with gunfights and people getting blasted or overt racism, but when a pair of tits comes on the screen "OHMAHGOSH COVER YOUR EYES LITTLE BILLY!!!"

gives me a big wtf and makes me not want to bring others to this message board.
I got suspended last year for calling a racist a dickhead, and till this day that racist comment is still here. Trust me, none of the mods really care about that stuff.
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:49 PM   #21
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I don't recall the specifics of your suspension but if by calling out you mean you insulted someone directly, that violates the TOS

making shitty generalizations or blanket racist comments is not.
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Old 03-06-2015, 04:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by carries an axe View Post
insulted someone directly, that violates the TOS

racist comments is not.
Wanna bet that what he means it's somewhat off?

BARFer A: Two niggers stole my bike.
BARFer B: BARFer A, you're a dick for using words like that. Go fuck yourself.
BARFer C: What BARFer B said. +1
Mod A: BARFer B, your suspended.
Mod B: Hey, be a BARF contributor!

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Old 03-06-2015, 04:12 PM   #23
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Then Lester Green ought to be able to specify the three racists in the thread linked in his sig -

Three open and in your face racists can be found here.
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/fo...d.php?t=374027


And the Mods should do something about it or let it go as a freedom of speech issue and let Lester modify his sig.

Or am I expecting too much here?

Otherwise, good thoughts by Dennis & the other adults in the room (excluding me, of course... ).
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:21 PM   #24
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Regarding racism and the rules...

Remember that we as a community create a culture on BARF, and we need to decide what kind of behavior we tolerate and what kind of behavior we do not tolerate.

BARF as a community has fairly strong feelings about loud bikes, helmet laws, and riding gear. There are no rules preventing anyone from saying they ride without gear, love their open headers, and hate helmet laws.

We as a community don't have to have a rule against racist comments to take a stance on it.
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:31 PM   #25
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Speaking only for myself here, not Budman, and not the other mods, let me see if I can break this down:
  • The TOS, and specfically TOS 4.1 which is the section most often resulting in a violation and suspension, applies specifically to what a member posts that is directed at another specific and reasonably identifiable member. If I were to call someone a dickhead, even if most reasonable people would agree, is name calling, is not conducive to the constructive running of the board, and mods are likely to take action
  • Calling some person or group of people a name - people who are not specifically identifiable as members of BARF does not violate TOS 4.1, because that only prohibits name calling between members, so general racist comments do not generally rise to the level of being viewed as a TOS violation that will result in a suspension
  • Certain types of speech that I personally find reprehensible, but which are not aimed at a specific member is not currently actionable, however, it provides some great insight into the character (or maybe the very broken sense of humor) of the poster. Some of us find that insight valuable. There are some members whose posts put them into the category of "we will never be friends"
  • Restricting reprehensible speech not directed at members from BARF is problematic. What language meets that standard? Who decides? My guess is that you don't want me deciding
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by flying_hun View Post
Speaking only for myself here, not Budman, and not the other mods, let me see if I can break this down:
  • The TOS, and specfically TOS 4.1 which is the section most often resulting in a violation and suspension, applies specifically to what a member posts that is directed at another specific and reasonably identifiable member. If I were to call someone a dickhead, even if most reasonable people would agree, is name calling, is not conducive to the constructive running of the board, and mods are likely to take action
  • Calling some person or group of people a name - people who are not specifically identifiable as members of BARF does not violate TOS 4.1, because that only prohibits name calling between members, so general racist comments do not generally rise to the level of being viewed as a TOS violation that will result in a suspension
  • Certain types of speech that I personally find reprehensible, but which are not aimed at a specific member is not currently actionable, however, it provides some great insight into the character (or maybe the very broken sense of humor) of the poster. Some of us find that insight valuable. There are some members whose posts put them into the category of "we will never be friends"
  • Restricting reprehensible speech not directed at members from BARF is problematic. What language meets that standard? Who decides? My guess is that you don't want me deciding
Very well put.
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Old 03-06-2015, 09:55 PM   #27
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Mods, you have a tough job keeping the BARF herd herded, can't be an easy thing. However, I respectfully disagree with the approach to moderating hate speech.

Section 4.1 says, in part:
Members will conduct themselves in a respectful manner...Members' posts should not contain malicious personal attacks, flaming, baiting, post whoring (posting with the sole purpose of increasing their overall post count), trolling, e-sniping, e-stalking, indirect attacks, and other such activities that are not conducive to a positive and productive environment.

Racist comments, and the use of common racial slurs, are patently contrary to a positive and productive environment. When does that EVER go well? More to the point, why would we tolerate it? I am far more disturbed and saddened by the reeking effluvia of racism, LGBT bashing, etc. than I am by someone calling me an asshole. Why would we let anyone grind their hateful, stinking shit into the BARF carpet?

Respectfully, there are already clear limits on speech here. I think we DO want you deciding; while there will be borderline cases, there will also be cut-and-dry slam dunks. The thread linked above is one such. Using the person's race to determine whether content is offensive is frankly somewhat racist.

As far as allowing hate speech to gain insight on someone's character, why? They can convey their bigotry in a thousand more subtle ways if they want.

Last edited by bcv_west; 03-06-2015 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:22 PM   #28
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Racist comments, and the use of common racial slurs, are patently contrary to a positive and productive environment. When does that EVER go well? More to the point, why would we tolerate it? I am far more disturbed and saddened by the reeking effluvia of racism, LGBT bashing, etc. than I am by someone calling me an asshole. Why would we let anyone grind their hateful, stinking shit into the BARF carpet?
A bigoted comment aimed at a member violates TOS 4.1, just like any other personal attack. Reprehensible speech not aimed a member does not violate 4.1. If I call the dickhead in the utility bed truck who is not obviously a member and who tried to prevent me from splitting a dickhead, is that a violation? If someone calls Sarah Palin, or Hillary Clinton, or Jon Stewart a name that can be construed as a slur, is that a violation? How about if I said all investment bankers are fucking thieves and should be flayed on the common, is that a violation? If I said you are a fucking thief and should be flayed on the common, is that different?

The reason you don't want me deciding what is unacceptable speech on BARF is that there are entire threads on BARF that contain posts that I find offensive. Usually, I can tell by the thread topic, or by who is actively posting that I don't really want to engage with it. Do I get to shut them down? If Tim finds stuff offensive, even if it's not aimed at any particular BARF member, does he get to shut them down?

Be careful what you ask for.
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Old 03-07-2015, 09:39 AM   #29
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Kurt, I think there's a huge distinction between reprehensible speech and gratuitous hate speech. Ultimately, I do trust the mods to tell the difference. I'm not alone in finding the latter far more offensive than the former. As an example:

A: Jon Stewart is a smarmy bastard
B: Jon Stewart is a smarmy Jew bastard

A: Hillary is a controlling witch
B: Hillary is a controlling dyke witch

A: That truck driver was a dickhead
B: That faggot truck driver sucks dick

Quote:
Originally Posted by flying_hun View Post
The reason you don't want me deciding what is unacceptable speech on BARF is that there are entire threads on BARF that contain posts that I find offensive.
It's not about what you find offensive, is it? You and the other mods routinely decide what is unacceptable speech on BARF; I doubt you're personally offended when someone calls someone else an asshole. I trust you to differentiate between stupidity and blatant hate speech. If it's borderline, you could also create a P-trap forum below the Kitchen Sink, with a clear 'worst of the worst' warning label.

Anyway, that's my 2c. Hope it at least drives some discussion at the next mod meeting.

Last edited by bcv_west; 03-07-2015 at 09:57 AM..
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:11 AM   #30
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I see your point Tim.. but where does hate speech stop.

One big one on barf is religion. Many people think it is stupid and a waste of time and they so. Comments about Christians and Muslems top the list, but some Jewish stuff from time to time and what about the guys with the pony tails.. and the ones with multiple wives?? What about Cops... lawyers.. politicians?? Kids with pimples???

Hate is a very broad brush and I sure the hell cannot do this or ask volunteer mods to do this 30 hours a week trying to weed out hate and make barf more utopian.

I have drawn a line and that is going to be it for now.

FYI - As Mod's we do admonish a user here and their for poor decisions.
As a user of barf you can do the same in a semi- respectful way. Self moderate.

It feels sooooooo gooooooood.
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