BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Club House > Who Let the Smoke Out!?


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-12-2020, 08:11 PM   #46
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by budman View Post
Man.... you chronicled this so well and kept the evidence and.. shared with us
Thanks! I kept a running account on the Concours Owners Group website (COG) This is where other gearheads posted and offered technical assistance on all things mechanical. The concept of a spanwise plate mounted to the front of the engine came from COG member by the name of Chuck (Revrider I think) who was a drag racer from back in the day.

Still more to come...

Dan
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 09:46 AM   #47
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
Before I get to the carb tuning...

I forgot that the next step was to figure out what was wrong with the shifting mechanism. When shifting from gear to gear it was vague, not very positive. I missed a few times which never happens with the Concours.

I recorded every step of this project with photos for at least two reasons. First and foremost was for forensics. If in fact something went wrong, I wanted to retrace my steps to see if I could identify something in the photos that would show the cause. It worked perfectly in this case.

I discovered that what I had done was accidentally switched the return springs on the gear indexer arm with the neutral indexer arm. They were identical in shape but each painted a different color. Complicating things was the fact that the ZRX used a different color code on the springs than the Concours. The gear indexer arm spring is stronger than the neutral indexer arm spring. I didn't think to measure the spring wire diameter, that would have given me a clue. Pictures show the Concours set on top, ZRX set on bottom. I was comparing all aspects of each set to make sure they were compatible mechanically. Didn't pay enough attention to the springs.

So I knew I had to get in there and change the springs. This mechanism is out side the crankcases but behind the bevel gear case. PITA. I had to remove the rear wheel, back out the swing arm pivots, de-couple the driveshaft, drain the engine oil,drain the coolant, remove the clutch slave cylinder and remove the water pump just to get to the mechanism. Not happy, I just spent a lot of time carefully putting this together but I had no choice.

In the meantime I ordered a ball bearing shift arm from Factory Pro in San Rafael. It has a stronger spring than stock. So I moved the gear index arm spring to the neutral index arm and installed the F.P. arm for the gear indexer.

One other thing. While messing with the transmission I remove the "automatic neutral finder" mechanism. For those unfamiliar, it prevents shifting up past neutral if at a stop. I hated it, don't like a transmission telling what I can and cannot do. I removed the three balls that were housed in the fifth driven gear and that did it. The stronger springs were expected to provide positive shifting and that is exactly what occurred.

In the picture with the F.P. arm you can see that I replaced the 8mm hollow shear locating sleeves with solid stainless steel dowel pins.

This wasn't the last time I had to removed the bevel gear case. More on that later...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	111-P7290182-smaller.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	144.6 KB
ID:	540096   Click image for larger version

Name:	251-P1190006-smaller.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	101.7 KB
ID:	540097   Click image for larger version

Name:	029-P6090013-smaller.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	54.8 KB
ID:	540098  
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2020, 06:35 PM   #48
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
I typed up about four paragraphs to describe briefly the carb work but my "token" had expired and it got pitched overboard and sank out of sight. I'll re-compose this later...

Dan
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 06:40 AM   #49
kpke
Veteran
 
kpke's Avatar
 
Contributor +

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Livermore
Motorcycles: many 2 strokes 06 R1 LE 158
Name: Ken
That sucks Dan. Loving this thread and what you did to that bike!!!

When making long posts I always prepare it in Word or google docs first. Then copy and paste in to the the forum post. If using a photo hosting site like Imgur you can even copy in the "code" for your pics into the Word document as you progress.
__________________
Yes! Teh BRAF is O-K!

Ken's Garage
Motorcycle rides, shows, custom builds, and other stuff
kpke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 07:57 AM   #50
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpke View Post
That sucks Dan. Loving this thread and what you did to that bike!!!

When making long posts I always prepare it in Word or google docs first. Then copy and paste in to the the forum post. If using a photo hosting site like Imgur you can even copy in the "code" for your pics into the Word document as you progress.
Yeah, I used to do that but got lazy. At the very least I should have refreshed the session to make sure it was current.

Glad you like it! It was quite an adventure for sure. I'll keep up on this story and re-compose this post from memory.

One thing I didn't make clear at the beginning was I outlined three phases to the project:

1) Phase I: Configure the ZRX engine for the Concours and successfully mount it in the Concours frame and complete all supplemental tasks for operation.

2) Phase II: Swap the front forks (17" wheel, brakes, etc.) from the ZRX to the Concours.

3) Phase III: Change rear wheel diameter to 17" to take advantage of modern radial tires. The stock sizes on the Concours was 18" front, 16" rear and tire companies were not investing in leading edge technologies for those sizes.

Stay tuned...

Dan
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 12:39 PM   #51
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
Test post with picture. Got a second "token expired" note so just testing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	196-PA240016-smaller.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	110.2 KB
ID:	540146  
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 12:49 PM   #52
auntiebling
megalomaniacal troglodyte
 
auntiebling's Avatar
 
BARF Moderator (ooh, fancy!)
Barfie Winner 2017
Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: atop the parapet
Motorcycles: .
Name:
pictures:
it might be beneficial to upload them to your albums. from there you can hotlink to them like any other hosting service. that way if the upload times out at least you only lose the picture upload and not the prose

albums are under your profile. in the top right corner of the screen it should say "welcome Bergmen" and your screen name is a link that takes you to your profile page. on the right is a list of "albums" and it's pretty familiar from there
__________________
no shirt, no shoes: No dice BARF TOS
every book is a children's book if the kid can read
-mitchbarf memes
my dad is an engineer
17/38 sprockets
CARB bikes list CA DMV fee calculators

Classifieds Forum Rules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacinator View Post
Love that subway tile backsplash, auntie
auntiebling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 12:52 PM   #53
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by auntiebling View Post
pictures:
it might be beneficial to upload them to your albums. from there you can hotlink to them like any other hosting service. that way if the upload times out at least you only lose the picture upload and not the prose

albums are under your profile. in the top right corner of the screen it should say "welcome Bergmen" and your screen name is a link that takes you to your profile page. on the right is a list of "albums" and it's pretty familiar from there
Very cool, thanks!
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 12:56 PM   #54
auntiebling
megalomaniacal troglodyte
 
auntiebling's Avatar
 
BARF Moderator (ooh, fancy!)
Barfie Winner 2017
Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: atop the parapet
Motorcycles: .
Name:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
Very cool, thanks!
thank you for sharing this. i am thoroughly entertained and a touch envious
__________________
no shirt, no shoes: No dice BARF TOS
every book is a children's book if the kid can read
-mitchbarf memes
my dad is an engineer
17/38 sprockets
CARB bikes list CA DMV fee calculators

Classifieds Forum Rules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacinator View Post
Love that subway tile backsplash, auntie
auntiebling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 01:06 PM   #55
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
Okay, let's try this again...

After fixing the shifting issue I moved on to carburation. The spring replacement on the two shift arms worked perfectly with the result being distinct, positive shifts and easily finding neutral whenever I wanted.
From the beginning I had been experiencing carburation issues (stumbly acceleration, not smooth at certain cruising speeds, etc.).

While I was posting on the Concours Ownership Forum on the progress of this project, it attracted many owners with considerable mechanical and tuning expertise. Lots of great suggestions that helped the project along tremendously.

One standout (as I had mentioned earlier) was Steve in Sunny Florida. He is an expert on all things tuning especially carburetors.

I was using the stock Concours air box along with stock Concours exhaust with one exception. I had performed a "bafflectomy" on both mufflers before I started the project due to reported success in "seat-of-the-pants" performance improvements and a slightly throatier exhaust note. This was done by taking a 1" diameter steel rod (in my case an axle from an old truck), sharpening it and pounding it into the muffler to pierce a baffle.

Steve had a good sense on what to do. He started by having me drill out the pilot jets to 0.0145 diameter. I had a set of micro drills and a pin vise so this was pretty easy. We also did a comparison of the emulsion tubes from both bikes and I did a dimensional comparison of the various high speed needles I had. He also sent me several sets of main jets to try.

More in the next post…
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	194-PA240011-smaller.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	58.3 KB
ID:	540148   Click image for larger version

Name:	195-PA240014-smaller.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	64.3 KB
ID:	540149   Click image for larger version

Name:	203-PB020024-smaller.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	27.8 KB
ID:	540150   Click image for larger version

Name:	Comparison-HighSpeed-Needles.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	30.7 KB
ID:	540151  
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 01:21 PM   #56
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
Now this is where my carb boots being 1" shorter than the Concours boots really paid off. On a stock Concours, prying out the carbs are a royal PITA, no room for maneuvering, one just has to drag them out and mash them back in beating up the boots in the process.

With the air box being able to be shifted back an inch, this made it much easier to get to the carbs. I would do this many times as we worked these issues. The high speed needles could be changed with the carbs in place (although access was a bit difficult especially on #2 and #3).

So, I would ride down the road doing exactly what Steve said to do (how much throttle, at what rpm, what the symptoms were, etc.). Then I would come home, phone Steve, he would tell me what to do next. Yank the carbs, make adjustments, re-install the carbs, test ride, rinse, repeat.

Much of what transpired indicated the mixture was too fat. Approaching a smooth running solution proved difficult. In my one contribution to this experiment I suggested going too lean and working up from there. Steve agreed so I lowered the high speed needles and put a set of smaller main jets in.

This worked very well and we crept up on smoothness one step at a time. I can't remember how many changes I made but the final process was jet and needle specific.

On the second to last test ride, I was almost there. Steve suggested raising the needles one notch and he bet this would do it.

It did! Next ride was perfect, this thing hauled rutabagas at that point.

We were there!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0922-smaller.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	236.2 KB
ID:	540154  

Last edited by bergmen; 12-15-2020 at 01:57 PM..
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 01:33 PM   #57
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
So at this point I was comfortable in taking the bike out on some local rides. The Sacramento chapter of COG held regular day rides so I went on a few.

I also took the opportunity to spiff up the looks of the bike. I decided to leave the lower fairing panels off for a couple of reasons. First, I wanted to be able to easily inspect anything and second, I didn't mind showing off that fact that I had a different engine installed.

I made a trim strip to finish off the lower edge of the upper fairing (hand bludgeoned a strip aluminum into shape and painted it black). I also was able to determine the font used by Kawasaki for the tank badge and had an outfit in Texas print up some gold vinyl "ZGRX 1200 Conours" stickers that I put on the side covers.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	230-PB210059-smaller.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	188.1 KB
ID:	540155   Click image for larger version

Name:	231-PB290060-smaller.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	184.1 KB
ID:	540156   Click image for larger version

Name:	232-PB290061-smaller.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	129.1 KB
ID:	540157   Click image for larger version

Name:	274-P3200026-smaller.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	111.4 KB
ID:	540159  

Last edited by bergmen; 12-15-2020 at 01:39 PM..
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 02:30 PM   #58
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
So now it is time to move on to Phase II of the project, replacing my front end with the front end off the ZRX. This had shown itself to be a popular upgrade on the COG forum so I had planned to do this as well by swiping the parts off of the ZRX.

The XRX forks were much stouter (43mm fork tubes vs. 41mm on the Concours) and a much more modern suspension design with full compression and rebound damping adjustability. Concours only had spring preload, no damping adjustment. The brakes were also a giant improvement being 320mm and six piston calipers as well as a very lightweight 17” wheel.

The steering stem and bearings were identical between the two, the only thing I had to do was fit the upper triple clamp. Several differences here so I had to do quite a bit of cutting, hogging and fitting. Then I did a test fit to make sure all was well.

It is worth noting here that I mounted the forks in the same location as on the ZRX with the tubes 20mm above the upper triple clamp surface (more on this later).

Once I was finished hacking and hewing I sent the parts out to be semi-gloss black powder coated. I also swiped the handlebars from my 1985 Honda Nighthawk S which provided lower knuckle adjustments and had those powder coated as well. The Rex bars went on the Nighthawk.

I brought the lime green ZRX front fender to a body shop in town and had them paint it Candy Red to match the color on the Concours.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	276-P4190013-smaller.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	120.2 KB
ID:	540162   Click image for larger version

Name:	277-P4200016-smaller.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	109.9 KB
ID:	540163   Click image for larger version

Name:	285-P4220004-smaller.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	124.1 KB
ID:	540164   Click image for larger version

Name:	288-P4220009-smaller.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	106.6 KB
ID:	540165   Click image for larger version

Name:	297-P4300019-smaller.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	113.5 KB
ID:	540166  


Last edited by bergmen; 12-15-2020 at 03:49 PM..
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 02:41 PM   #59
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
So once I got everything installed I took it for a test ride. This did not work out well at all, the forks were stiff as a board, very rough riding and they seemed twitchy as though it would go into a tank-slapper wobble if I relaxed my hands on the grips.

I at first thought this was a big mistake, not at all what I expected. So I came back and looked things over.

First I found the steering bearings needed much more tightening (they must have settled a bit during the test ride). Then I checked the spring preload and damping adjustments and found that they were all screwed down to the max. I checked the manual and backed everything off to minimum settings. I also at that point decided to lower the forks so that the tubes were flush with the top of the upper triple clamp.

A couple of reasons for this. First it would slightly increase the rake which would contribute to stability. Second, the forks were about 1" shorter than the Concours forks and it proved to be a purple bitch to get up on the center stand.

Next test ride was like night and day. Solid on-rails handling and totally stable all around. I eventually discovered that the rigidity of the forks revolutionized the handling, very solid. The Concours forks were tortionally weak causing the weebly-wobblies in cruising speed sweepers with a full touring load.

Not so now, this thing handled with precision. And the brakes - holy toledo, major improvement. I had put a new set of sintered pads in and man this thing could drop anchor!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	293-P4270014-smaller.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	137.7 KB
ID:	540168  
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 02:55 PM   #60
bergmen
Veteran
 
bergmen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ukiah, California
Motorcycles: 2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
Name: Dan
When I started this project in the fall of 2007 I had learned that the next COG National Rally was going to be held in June,2008 at Frisco, Colorado. I decided to see if I could make it.

I finished the front fork swap in April so I felt confident to do so. I registered for the Rally, got two of my best riding buddies to join me and we headed over the Sierras, across Nevada and Utah and into Colorado.

Long story short, the ride went without a hitch, zero technical issues whatsoever. Set the cruise control at 90mph and breezed across Nevada (both ways). We decided to try to make it home in two long days and we did so comfortably.

Oh, and I won best modified at the show.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0188-smaller.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	110.2 KB
ID:	540169   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0382-smaller.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	104.5 KB
ID:	540170   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1203-smaller.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	111.6 KB
ID:	540171   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0203-smaller.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	201.6 KB
ID:	540183  

Last edited by bergmen; 12-16-2020 at 08:09 AM..
bergmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.