BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Club House > AFM Forum


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-05-2021, 08:19 AM   #16
csik magnet
Rookie
 
csik magnet's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Reno, NV
Motorcycles: 07 1098S, 02 XR250, 00 XR400, 16 VStrom 1k, 08 R6 (race)
Name: Nick
Jakko, those are excellent points. Anyone who read the BoD minutes from last month can see the balance spreadsheet, the club is definitely hurting for money. And while an increase in membership would help the club in the long term, there's little they can do to immediately raise funds beyond increasing our fees. I'd guess a lot of the sentiment in this thread is stemming from a lack of forewarning/transparency with the membership over a pretty significant cost increase, it was just a note in the minutes after it's already been approved (and then Gordon explaining more in depth here, thanks Gordon!)
The other aspect is people who paid their dues for 2020 and received little for their fees in return - not through fault of the AFM but also not through fault of the racers, just the circumstances of the year. Should racers who paid for a full season license last year still have been expected to pay the full cost of said license, when the AFM did not deliver a full season (even by the AFM's own definition of a full/half season in the rulebook)? I'm not saying that was the AFM's fault but I understand the ire; there's a difference between someone intentionally making a donation to the club, and the club keeping fees paid while not delivering what those fees are supposed to be for. Everyone who paid for a full license intended for that to allow them to race a full season, but not everyone who paid for a full license would have paid for a half license + a donation.

George, I don't know if the economics have changed over the years, different classes are vastly different costs, or my homebrew "racing program" is terrible at finances - my entry fees have worked out to be about 1/3 of my total cost for a weekend, and with the new increases that pushes closer to 1/2. That's a big factor in my ability to race. Granted, that's if I don't crash and not including purchase cost of the bike, but all other predictable costs are amortized in (tow fuel, race fuel, food, camping, maintenance, incidentals). I would loooove to race a series where my entry fees were only 1/5 of the overall cost! And yeah, racing is absolutely expensive and risky. I always explain it to people as "It's the most fun I've ever had pulling $20s out of my wallet and lighting them on fire." I think it will be a bit less fun as it becomes a bit more expensive, but when the choices are higher costs vs. no racing at all, I guess I'll be burning a few more $20s.
__________________
AFM #775
csik magnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 10:26 AM   #17
stangmx13
not Stan
 
stangmx13's Avatar
 
Contributor
BrotoGP

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Motorcycles: 04' 600RR, 09' 600RR, 15' R6
Name: Robert
What were the old fees and what are the new ones? I forgot the old ones and cant find anything on the website.
__________________
BrotoGP Podcast and on Youtube
WERA #513 / AFM #513R / MotoAmerica #31
Follow me on IG @rwpierce13
Thanks to: RiderzLaw Vortex
stangmx13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 11:38 AM   #18
thedub
Octane Socks
 
thedub's Avatar
 
AMA #: 2952025

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Motorcycles: R6, Tiger 800, KTM 500, KTM 350
Name: Wiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangmx13 View Post
What were the old fees and what are the new ones? I forgot the old ones and cant find anything on the website.
Was 80/65 TH/BW.

Now 110/80.

It was 85/70 at Sonoma, but I guess that's moot since we don't go there anymore.
__________________
AFM #77, D36 #166N
Thanks for the support;
Sidi|Motion Pro|C@TT|Vortex|Shoei
thedub is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 02:07 PM   #19
stangmx13
not Stan
 
stangmx13's Avatar
 
Contributor
BrotoGP

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Motorcycles: 04' 600RR, 09' 600RR, 15' R6
Name: Robert
Thnx Wiles.

Those new prices definitely arent outrageous or anything. $330 and $240 is completely within range. WERA charges $320 for 3 races at their expensive tracks and $275 for cheaper tracks. CVMA charges $275 for 3 races.

But that doesnt factor in whatever practice is included. Most conversations about cost with AFM seem to eventually lead to the price of practice :|
__________________
BrotoGP Podcast and on Youtube
WERA #513 / AFM #513R / MotoAmerica #31
Follow me on IG @rwpierce13
Thanks to: RiderzLaw Vortex

Last edited by stangmx13; 01-05-2021 at 02:09 PM..
stangmx13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 05:28 AM   #20
scratchpad
Veteran
 
scratchpad's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SJV
Motorcycles: Bagger
Name:
These additional costs are not going to help attract new racers. If it does they will be short term as in a couple rounds and maybe up to 2 years before their credits cards are maxed out. They always go back to doing trackdays though. Its been that way since i started racing and it was that way long before that. Hopefully theres new members that can afford to stick around.

For the members that can afford the new fees but were doing multiple races on a budget it may limit the races they do from here on out.

IMO AFM is pushing away some of its long term members. The long term members are what keep this club afloat and moving forward, not the fly by nighters.
scratchpad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 10:15 AM   #21
stangmx13
not Stan
 
stangmx13's Avatar
 
Contributor
BrotoGP

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Motorcycles: 04' 600RR, 09' 600RR, 15' R6
Name: Robert
Don't forget - if track rental prices are going or have gone up, trackday prices are going up too. Nearly everything gets more expensive year after year. That's life.
__________________
BrotoGP Podcast and on Youtube
WERA #513 / AFM #513R / MotoAmerica #31
Follow me on IG @rwpierce13
Thanks to: RiderzLaw Vortex
stangmx13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 01:25 PM   #22
2wls4ever
Rookie
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Felton (Santa Cruz mountains)
Motorcycles: 2007 Yamaha R6 2015 honda nsf250r
Name: FITZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by afm222 View Post
I too have the advantage of racing in a few different organizations and I've always liked the AHRMA format. They always do a Friday practice day which is usually well attended. On the bigger track venues (Laguna, Barber, Road America etc.) they even do a Thursday as well. Then Saturday is two quick practice sessions for practice groups 1-5 and then right into racing. Sunday is a repeat of Saturday's format.

For me I go racing to well...race. If I want a trackday I'll go do one. Since I do 3 classes with AHRMA I end up getting 6 races in over two days. For a 7 race season with AFM that would equate to 14 races deciding a class Champion. I think that would be much more representative than only 7 races especially if someone couldn't make a round or you have a DNF.

Not sure how the income works out for the club doing this way instead of our current method of Saturday practice day and Sunday race day.

Obviously no Saturday practice may not be more desirable to Novices but in my experience racing does more for your learning curve than practice but that's just me. I get that many can not take off on a Friday for practice and Saturday is why AFM has always done it this way for those who can't get off work.

Lastly, I appreciate the AFM and all those that work behind the scenes to give us all an opportunity to race in such a safe, professional organization no matter what the format we use.
I agree 100%. Forcing riders to pay for Sat practice doesn't make any sense when for certain classes it could be a double race weekend. Friday should be for practice as a rider option and Sat Sunday for racing. Like AHRMA and CVMA

Obviously the format and business model need to progress. Member, race entries, and average age should make this obvious.
2wls4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 02:03 PM   #23
stangmx13
not Stan
 
stangmx13's Avatar
 
Contributor
BrotoGP

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Motorcycles: 04' 600RR, 09' 600RR, 15' R6
Name: Robert
DHs are a great way to drain your racing budget in half the time . That's not a solution to increased costs.

WERA also does 2 quick practice rounds before each race day. But they have fewer classes and racers. So things go faster and it all fits in the day. Racing doesn't start until noon for WERA and they do 14-16 races. AFM starts before 10AM and accomplishes ~13 races. Getting rid of the lunch and podium breaks might allow racing to start later, ie allow time for another practice round that morning. But I doubt you could fit AFM's Sat races onto Sun.

All these problems might be solved by smaller attendance. If the number of classes, races, and racers decreases , maybe the whole schedule will fit onto one day with 2 quick practice rounds. Then operating expenses decrease because AFM doesn't have to rent the track for 2 days to host a single round.
__________________
BrotoGP Podcast and on Youtube
WERA #513 / AFM #513R / MotoAmerica #31
Follow me on IG @rwpierce13
Thanks to: RiderzLaw Vortex
stangmx13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 09:52 PM   #24
DannoXYZ
Veteran
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Barf Roadside Angel

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: East Bay
Motorcycles: CB125T EX250E Ninja250R racer CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR250R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR VFR750
Name: Danno
Even with fee increases, I still think it's a good deal due to being a small portion of total racing budget. My first season couple years ago broke down roughly as follows:

50-55% equipment, gear
25-35% travel, lodging, gas, and food
20-25% AFM fees

Even if race fees went up, they still will be minor part of total. I'll just camp out at track more and brown-bag lunches. That's how I was able to do 42 trackdays along with racing 4-weekends my 1st season. Hotel & restaurants = set of tyres, so I'll just camp.

I really appreciate all the AFM BoD is doing to keep this show running. I really like that AHRMA format mentioned earlier with similar schedules for both Sat & Sun. Maybe just 1 practice per day and more races to lower cost of individual races? I'd certainly like to race 6x per weekend if possible.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 01-07-2021 at 08:56 AM..
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 06:52 AM   #25
jrshooter
Newbie
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: placerville
Motorcycles: ninja 300
Name:
i like the cvma format.
as stated earlier, i run the friday trackday and race on sunday.
i dont run the saturday practice. afm would get 2 days out of me if they would race sat and sun.
jrshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 07:41 AM   #26
scratchpad
Veteran
 
scratchpad's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SJV
Motorcycles: Bagger
Name:
The fees increase itself is not a big deal. Leave it at that.

We know, In order to qualify for a Formula class you have to pay for practice. (which is BS) Now, theres talk on a fee increase on top of the newly added increase to run a Formula class. (which is BS)

I think its been about 3 years that qualifying has become a thing. The whole schpeel was that F classes were the big deal and were thinking about adding laps. Mandatory pay for practice got passed.

We never got more laps.

Now were back again but with a fee increase with talks on an addditonal fee increase for the "big deal" F classes for a possible payout and additional laps.
scratchpad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2021, 10:58 PM   #27
Daredevil
Modest Max
 
Daredevil's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: petaluma, ca
Motorcycles: 08 r4.5 race, 01 ninja 250 street
Name:
double header weekends
put podium celebration at end of day


i'd rather pay more for more racing, than less for racing + practice.
Daredevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2021, 10:18 AM   #28
stangmx13
not Stan
 
stangmx13's Avatar
 
Contributor
BrotoGP

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Motorcycles: 04' 600RR, 09' 600RR, 15' R6
Name: Robert
Here's how I'd bet the AFM could ditch Saturday entirely. Get rid of Clubman, F50, Legacy, and AFemme. At least chose 3 of those 4, probably the whichever is least attended. Add another practice Sunday morning and make the 2nd one count as Formula Qualifying. Move the lunch break up to before all the racing and move the podium until after all the racing. Saturday becomes a trackday run by someone else or AFM runs a double header. Offer Tech Sat evening of course. Don't charge extra for qualifying since its just a timed practice, but do charge more if they get longer races.
__________________
BrotoGP Podcast and on Youtube
WERA #513 / AFM #513R / MotoAmerica #31
Follow me on IG @rwpierce13
Thanks to: RiderzLaw Vortex

Last edited by stangmx13; 01-11-2021 at 10:19 AM..
stangmx13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2021, 04:53 PM   #29
jtiisto
Rookie
 
jtiisto's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: San Bruno
Motorcycles: Street: Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring 2014 Race: BMW S1000RR 2018
Name: Jack
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangmx13 View Post
Here's how I'd bet the AFM could ditch Saturday entirely. Get rid of Clubman, F50, Legacy, and AFemme. At least chose 3 of those 4, probably the whichever is least attended...
This proposal fails to go through on annual basis

Any plan to remove some classes receives a really vocal opposition. One of the reasons is that the discussion usually happens relatively late, and people have already invested in bikes for specific classes. In addition to every class being somebody's favorite class, of course.

IMO, if we want to have a discussion on removing classes and have the proposal go through successfully, the classes to be removed/evaluated for removal for 2022 season should be listed as such in the 2021 rulebook or a bulletin.
__________________
AFM #402. Sponsors: GoPro, Ryno Power, Motul USA, Renthal. AFM #402 on Youtube. Velocity Racing on Facebook.
jtiisto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2021, 05:17 PM   #30
stangmx13
not Stan
 
stangmx13's Avatar
 
Contributor
BrotoGP

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Motorcycles: 04' 600RR, 09' 600RR, 15' R6
Name: Robert
Other clubs don't deal with that nonsense because they are dictatorships, not democracies. Its often quite refreshing knowing that the people that actually know how to run a race org are making the decisions.
__________________
BrotoGP Podcast and on Youtube
WERA #513 / AFM #513R / MotoAmerica #31
Follow me on IG @rwpierce13
Thanks to: RiderzLaw Vortex
stangmx13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.