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Old 11-21-2017, 08:01 AM   #31
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Riding a motorcycle is not 1's and 0's. It is not a digital process. It's more analog / fuzzy logic. If you are looking for a specific definable answer to motorcycling techniques, I don't think you are going to find it.
This.

The two techniques are not opposing, nor viewpoints.

They are part of the same parcel. Counter steering initiates a turn.

Body movement can tighten a turn, and present the bike to a better exit.

Anyone riding a bike uses both to some degree.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:10 AM   #32
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Riding a motorcycle is not 1's and 0's. It is not a digital process. It's more analog / fuzzy logic. If you are looking for a specific definable answer to motorcycling techniques, I don't think you are going to find it.
I like that analogy. Keep it up.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:14 AM   #33
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I like that analogy. Keep it up.
Me too. If it was 1's, 0's and algorithms, motobot would be beating Rossi ...
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:19 AM   #34
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Thanks for all the answers, I found them helpful.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:24 AM   #35
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lets not kid ourselves, Motobot will eventually beat Rossi/MM/etc. motorcycle racing is a definable problem - given a set of inputs, what controls are needed to produce the required output. the current issue is not that this concept is wrong. its that we havent yet defined enough of the inputs or possible controls. teaching a human is far cheaper than learning the rest and teaching a computer to do it. just give it time.

as far as jumping on rcgldr for trying to define more for himself, thats just bullshit. imagine where we'd be if similar complaints were made about Code, Foale, Ken Hill, etc. understanding is great. it may or may not help someone go faster around the track, but who cares. learning can be fruitful all by itself.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:11 PM   #36
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lets not kid ourselves, Motobot will eventually beat Rossi/MM/etc. motorcycle racing is a definable problem - given a set of inputs, what controls are needed to produce the required output. the current issue is not that this concept is wrong. its that we havent yet defined enough of the inputs or possible controls. teaching a human is far cheaper than learning the rest and teaching a computer to do it. just give it time.

as far as jumping on rcgldr for trying to define more for himself, thats just bullshit. imagine where we'd be if similar complaints were made about Code, Foale, Ken Hill, etc. understanding is great. it may or may not help someone go faster around the track, but who cares. learning can be fruitful all by itself.
Maybe. In that MotoBot can be programmed with a huge number of variables and responses to them, eventually. Whether that reaches the level of AI, or just passes the Turing test is moot. We all know just how many variables there can be out there and how quickly they arise.

Remember, on the track, the human brain integrates complex equations of velocity, time, weather, light, tire wear, braking ability, available traction and others, and does it in a real time basis that allows the rider to go pretty damn fast. My feeling on the Motobot is that it will never be a true AI, but rather a machine that is programmed to react to huge data inputs quickly.

The equations that one needs to do to program a robot to catch a thrown ball are pretty data dense, as the throw will vary every time. Yet a human does them with no problems instinctively.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:19 PM   #37
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How many times has this been posted? Needs to be a sticky?

Street riding? Countersteer.

Everything else, worry about it when you get fast enough.

ta daaa.....
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:46 PM   #38
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Leg dangle is to take any possible weight from the inside peg so the bike doesn't initiate the turn in too early. MotoGP bikes are braking NEAR THE APEX at the same brake pressure as an AMA Superbike is using as it's max braking. At max braking, a MotoGP bike is near double the brake pressure of an AMA super bike. Riders that have their bodies shifted to the inside of the corner will inadvertently weight the inside peg at the wrong time when under max braking in some corners.

Notice when MotoGP riders do take the leg off, they're braking super heavy.
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:30 PM   #39
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:35 AM   #40
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Leg dangle is to take any possible weight from the inside peg so the bike doesn't initiate the turn in too early. MotoGP bikes are braking NEAR THE APEX at the same brake pressure as an AMA Superbike is using as it's max braking. At max braking, a MotoGP bike is near double the brake pressure of an AMA super bike. Riders that have their bodies shifted to the inside of the corner will inadvertently weight the inside peg at the wrong time when under max braking in some corners.

Notice when MotoGP riders do take the leg off, they're braking super heavy.
Uhhhh, what?
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:50 PM   #41
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Leg dangle is to take any possible weight from the inside peg so the bike doesn't initiate the turn in too early. MotoGP bikes are braking NEAR THE APEX at the same brake pressure as an AMA Superbike is using as it's max braking. At max braking, a MotoGP bike is near double the brake pressure of an AMA super bike. Riders that have their bodies shifted to the inside of the corner will inadvertently weight the inside peg at the wrong time when under max braking in some corners.

Notice when MotoGP riders do take the leg off, they're braking super heavy.
IDK. Hard braking is hard braking. Everyone has only til the back wheel comes up, doesn't matter what sponsors name is painted on the side.

I think the leg dangle is like a braking gauge, the rider can feel how much the rear starts to lift, that and the dragging foot also to help steer the rear of the bike.

As far as counter-steering goes, I would suggest that anyone who wants to learn about it, should go to a familiar riding spot, go through some corners with you hands holding very loosely to the bars, and focus attention to the pressure that you palms and fingers apply to the grips, and that will help you to notice what exactly counter-steering is.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:51 PM   #42
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youtu.be/mbrTZbjNUec
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:00 PM   #43
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Thanks for that Darkie.

I am on board with Keith's thinking. Your brief intro on his thoughts are the same as mine. Probably because he had such an influence on me..

This Vid is interesting as well.. showing how just one finger counter steer will adjust the direction of the bike. Dude is a little goofy but it is still a good example for folks to absorb that are just getting into the serious aspects of this.


youtu.be/ljywO-B_yew
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:21 PM   #44
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Hey Ken, how about Ceasering us up an explanation better than "uhhh what". As you're well aware, my income isn't derived from instructing. Maybe take a shot and give us a nice long explanation. It'd be a new thing here for ya! I'm sure we'll all learn something and not have to pay someone for it. FREE INFORMATION! WOOOOOOOOO!
rem my suspension thread a little while back that mostly ended w/ u telling me to call someone. are u not being a little hypocritical now?
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:04 PM   #45
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Interesting...Vindication from an "uhhh what"! Interesting comment on the locking out of arms to resist braking forces, but I don't see how a leg off is aiding in that technique.

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rem my suspension thread a little while back that mostly ended w/ u telling me to call someone. are u not being a little hypocritical now?
Not really. Call them what?

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