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Old Yesterday, 06:45 AM   #31
tzrider
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You’re wondering about traction for merging?
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Old Yesterday, 06:50 AM   #32
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I’m more worried about cold tar snakes on the on-ramp at 6am.

On the gas, cornering.
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 AM   #33
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Tar snakes exist to put the fear of god in you in the wet.
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Old Yesterday, 09:57 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by tzrider View Post
You’re wondering about traction for merging?
Probably the cloverleafs.

The aggressive merging part may refer to a high speed required to merge left from the curve. I often use a cloverleaf where much of the traffic on the straight is through traffic (which used to violate a traffic sign), and going much faster than makes sense for a cloverleaf merge.
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM   #35
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I've noticed the the Pirelli Diablo Corsa Rosso IIs I had were scary in moderately in cooler temperatures. I never had an issue once they warmed up, but just getting on the bike and going through low speed turns was scary. I could feel the front or back move out under very light throttle and while trying to keep the bike up right too. I've never experienced that with any other tire. After about 5-10 minutes they seemed fine, it was always the first few turns after sitting outside all day while I was at work that were horrible.
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Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by R3DS!X View Post
Tar snakes exist to put the fear of god in you in the wet.
Or in the hot sun.
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Old Yesterday, 03:01 PM   #37
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I remember some time back there was an article in City Bike about running sport touring rubber on sport bikes. It wasn't scientific, but a large group of riders headed out for a weekend riding 36, 299, 3, etc. All were on hard core sport bikes. Most spooned on new rubber. Some used pure sport rubber, other used sport touring rubber. In the end, after a few hundred miles of very spirited riding, the guys on the sport touring rubber had zero complaints, said the tires stuck well with excellent feedback, and had plenty of tread left. The guys on pure sport rubber had used up all their tread and some were showing cords. The general consensus was that sport touring rubber was all you'd ever need on public roads, even at aggressive paces.

Food for thought.
No surprise.
Back in the "old days" (early 2000s) it was pretty standard to wear a slightly harder "sport touring" tire on the rear, and a softer tire up front. I subscribed to that practice, for somewhat aggressive backroads riding or track day it worked really well.
I could do a track day on a fresh set, and replace the front if it was toast, or get 2 fronts to each rear.
This had the advantage of a schedule of sorts.
Every other trip for tires was to replace Both, and alternatively just a front. It usually worked out perfectly.

My riding style isn't as aggressive on the street/road these days, so I'm replacing tires 2 at a time just about every time.
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Old Yesterday, 04:11 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by tzrider View Post
You’re wondering about traction for merging?
do you ride in traffic around here?

Just thinking of a bit too much throttle near the end of the curve, because I am looking at what's coming about mid-way around. If I can, I will also look while on the overpass and adjust my entry and follow-through accordingly. There are also a lot of 2-lane cloverleaves and I am fortunate (or not?) not to have the metering lights, so merging to the end.
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Old Yesterday, 06:09 PM   #39
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do you ride in traffic around here?

Just thinking of a bit too much throttle near the end of the curve, because I am looking at what's coming about mid-way around. If I can, I will also look while on the overpass and adjust my entry and follow-through accordingly. There are also a lot of 2-lane cloverleaves and I am fortunate (or not?) not to have the metering lights, so merging to the end.
Uhh, "too much throttle" depends a whole lot on what kind of bike... and actually that's "old school." The right now bikes have computers that take care of that.

I can't imagine ANY brand name sport touring OR sport compound tire having a problem with "merging onto a freeway", cold or hot.
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Old Yesterday, 08:07 PM   #40
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Uhh, "too much throttle" depends a whole lot on what kind of bike... and actually that's "old school." The right now bikes have computers that take care of that.

I can't imagine ANY brand name sport touring OR sport compound tire having a problem with "merging onto a freeway", cold or hot.
Is there any computer tech that can "take care of" front tire wash and a low side from it? My amateurish "feel" is that the front is going to slip away and I'll hit the pavement flat, and hard. I think most bikes are susceptible to improper throttle inputs. What bikes are immune from my throttle stupidity?

And I couldn't imagine it either, but there seems to be a notable concern mentioned quite often when crashes are mentioned. I wont pretend to know everything and just hope to learn something.

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Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM   #41
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To answer your earlier question, yes, I regularly ride in Bay Area commute traffic in all weather. I’m coming up empty on the concern about tire compound for merging into traffic. What are you doing during a merge that has you worried about traction?
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Old Yesterday, 09:08 PM   #42
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What are you doing during a merge that has you worried about traction?
I am thinking about conversations on barf and all things mentioned. That's mostly what I think about when riding.

I guess I deleted this part. For example, this morning the taco truck blew the light, so I had to wait. Then onto the two-lane clover where I had no intention of riding in its greazy wash around the bend. Do you know? There were other cars all around bunching up, and what am I going to do other than be an obstacle while that mess and everything else drives through?

I am going to pull out and go around that... There is wide open nothing in front of this, so I either go there or mingle with the taco truck, random Prius, and white construction truck. It will take some throttle to get there, especially when taco bravo puts his foot in it to be (insert something witty!)

So as I'm gaining on Andale Gonzales, I'm not feeling the greatest traction up front, but is it possible that the tire is going to fail on my super sport touring bike and tire before getting around such a slug just because the tire is cold?

I can anecdotally conceive cold tire performance, but I have no quantitative basis otherwise. There seems to be so much noise in this that other factors seem to dominate.
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Old Yesterday, 09:27 PM   #43
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I think GaryJ might have been wrong.
Was he?

Why is it that a "race tire" will last half the time of a "performance street tire". Could it be that the race tire is a much softer compound to grip better? "Why, yes, blind rat, clutchslip, that might be the difference." I have run Pirelli SC tires on the street for-ev-ar. They warm up about 10% slower than true street tires, and hold the road at least 30% better than average street tires - on the street. But, that is my experience - YMMV.
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Old Today, 10:08 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by ctwo View Post

I recognize that tire performance is affected by temperature, but is there any legitimate concern when street riding within speed laws, or at least not in extreme excesses, <20% over? Is this really significant, and significantly different than sport tires?
Given <20% of speed limit? No. Not significant. Yes, some sport compound tires warm up more slowly than sport/touring compounds, but given the data in your question, not enough to matter.

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I am thinking about conversations on barf and all things mentioned. That's mostly what I think about when riding.
I'm taking you literally here, but suggest that what you should be thinking about all the time you are riding is the ride you are riding. Focus on the task at hand, stay 360 degree aware, have a Plan B in mind should a car do this or that, etc. Think about BARF crash analysis when you are not riding.

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Originally Posted by ctwo View Post
Is there any computer tech that can "take care of" front tire wash and a low side from it? My amateurish "feel" is that the front is going to slip away and I'll hit the pavement flat, and hard. I think most bikes are susceptible to improper throttle inputs. What bikes are immune from my throttle stupidity?

I wont pretend to know everything and just hope to learn something.
Front tire wash? What's that? I'll assume here we are not talking about hitting spilled diesel fuel or anti-freeze because those things can be there and they'll cause BIG loss of traction. I'm also assuming you have relatively fresh name brand tires and they are inflated properly. But clean road, it will take significant mis application of throttle to lose front tire traction. Loss of front traction while on the brakes is a different issue...

No bike is immune to "throttle stupidity." If you actually think you have that, as opposed to just day dreaming, then Track Day for you, because most track instructors know a thing or two about throttle and brake control, and they can explain it and demonstrate under way safer conditions than a freeway onramp.

Obviously, just my opinion here based on many years of riding, not meaning any of this as a "put down." I'm just sensing this from what you've written.
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