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Old 07-23-2019, 05:59 PM   #16
bitcollector
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Originally Posted by gixxerkid View Post
Keep in mind too that this corner is a decreasing radius corner. It starts consistent then it gets sharp real quick. I frequent 9 on the weekends and can vouch that this is a late apex corner so prepping up by going wide at the beginning of the corner is best practice.

Prepping would have helped immensely, a mental map if you will.

I was riding more aggressively than normal (recent track day with my first ever peg scrape) and the fact that I normally ride slower probably saved my bacon coming down the many times before. The decreasing radius turn never really stuck out in my mind, having never really been an issue before.

Now I consider my ride over by that point and ride very conservatively as I approach that corner.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Slow Goat View Post
Hope it didnít hurt too bad. Partzilla is our friend in these occasions; shouldnít be too e$pensive.
The pain to my shoulder was some of the worst pain in my life.

I sat at home with a ruptured appendix for the better part of a week so I've got a pretty high pain tolerance, to go along with my stubbornness

When they told me nothing was broken and sent me on my way I was in shock how much "soft tissue damage" alone could hurt.

The bike was an easy partzilla fix, I did all the work myself and the Insurance company was nice enough to pay for everything, even my gear. I came out ahead in the deal as the labor was a substantial part of the repair bill.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:08 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by afm199 View Post
And you are adding throttle at full lean a couple of times, not the best practice.
More good food for thought. Looking forward to a few more track sessions and maybe paring up with an instructor to get some first hand feedback.

The few times I've been so far, there has been so much information to take in; so much so that as I reflect, I really was not working on the things I should have as much as I was just out there having fun in a controlled environment.

Lot's of things to work on next time I'm out there since I now have a base under me if you will.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by danate View Post
I think most of what needs to be said was said already. Remember to choose a turn point that is where the turn actually starts. You consistently begin your turn early, which brings you up along the line or shoulder too soon, leading you to go wide on your path out of the turn. That along with the decreasing radius turn set off your fear response and target fixation did the rest. In those few moments when you were headed for the guard rail, there was still time to turn your head, give a strong steering input and get back on the throttle (just a little) to sharpen your turn and still make it.

When I first took riding classes, I was always taught that when I felt like I was going wide to "look more, push more" and never roll off the throttle completely. I've gone into that turn too fast as well, but by turning my head and leaning the bike more, it just left me with a scraped peg and the knowledge that I biffed my entry speed.

The best solution is to use better judgement and set a lower entry speed, especially on the road when the conditions can be ever-changing.

Once again, thanks again for taking the time to respond, it's much appreciated as I want to avoid this at all costs in the future and I obviously need to work on my technique as I ramp up the speed.

It's been ages since I took a riding class, but they always mentioned the same thing with regards to "target fixation", it's a lesson learned and then forgotten, only to be relearned through experience, instead of the "book knowledge" if you will. I'm hoping the next time I find myself in this situation my new found "instinct" takes over.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:20 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Lionel Cosgrove View Post
Sounds like you clutched in as well, no power to the wheel
Another really good point. I've watched this video hundreds of times and it's only recently, after posting to barf, that I noticed this. Clutching the bike is most certainly going to change the lines as the suspension frees up.

I'm thankful that this community helped me to come to sense of what really happened, lots of things that I never even considered.....it's kind of eye opening.....I mean I've been riding all my life.....but it's only recently that I've really started pushing the limits if you will.

I'm glad there was no oncoming traffic and this was a solo accident, its the best way to learn. My only other accident was also solo.....a kickstand left down before the sensors made there way onto every bike.
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Old 07-24-2019, 01:07 PM   #21
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Looks like front brake applied, bike stood up in typical fashion and then pilot surrendered/resigned on making the corner.

I did this same thing once in 1995 in Hwy9 near the top. But for me it was a lack of focus and giving up on making the turn. Every time I ride past that turn I shake my head.

Trying to learn from that mistake since then I sometimes do practice runs in different conditions where I setup for a turn, then purposefully partially/momentarily give up on the turn and then reset/recommit to the turn.
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Old 07-25-2019, 02:58 PM   #22
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A friend of mine crashed at that exact same spot late last year. Decreasing radius for sure and he did the exact same thing you did... except he ended up low-sliding his Ninja 300. He went for a normal apex while I chose the late apex (first weekend after reading total control which expounded late apex for street riding) and chopped the throttle and fixated on the guard rail.

Hope your shoulders okay. Friend totaled his bike. He slid into the guard rails, which bounced off his knee protection and slid-up cutting through thigh flesh. Luckily didn't get to the bone but still need surgery nonetheless.
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Old 07-26-2019, 04:47 PM   #23
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This all starts because you are not planning to use the front brake when entering a blind corner.

In this corner you were on the throttle before you started steering, which makes the bike want to run wide. (You did this in previous corners, and at a moderate pace (or easy corners) this was working ok for you. Then you arrived at a slightly tighter radius and entered the corner on the throttle, this started the path of running wide.

Had you moved your eyes into the corner and added more bar input you would (like you had done in previous corners), you would have been fine, but you looked at the guardrail.

Other observations:

You had used much more lean angle in previous corners which suggests you are ok with lean angle. The reason you are ok with more lean in the previous corners is because you scanned into the corner with your eyes at the right time.


This crash started with the habit of entering a blind corner while on the throttle. (bike does not steer as well and wants to run wide).

The final straw was that you looked at the guard rail instead of into the corner.
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by mototireguy View Post
Looks like front brake applied, bike stood up in typical fashion and then pilot surrendered/resigned on making the corner.

I did this same thing once in 1995 in Hwy9 near the top. But for me it was a lack of focus and giving up on making the turn. Every time I ride past that turn I shake my head.

Trying to learn from that mistake since then I sometimes do practice runs in different conditions where I setup for a turn, then purposefully partially/momentarily give up on the turn and then reset/recommit to the turn.
Front Break.....check.

it's amazing how many things went wrong with the crash, so much to learn from.

I like the idea of momentarily "giving up" on a turn to practice and build muscle memory......good stuff, thanks again.
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dammyneckhurts View Post
This all starts because you are not planning to use the front brake when entering a blind corner.

In this corner you were on the throttle before you started steering, which makes the bike want to run wide. (You did this in previous corners, and at a moderate pace (or easy corners) this was working ok for you. Then you arrived at a slightly tighter radius and entered the corner on the throttle, this started the path of running wide.

Had you moved your eyes into the corner and added more bar input you would (like you had done in previous corners), you would have been fine, but you looked at the guardrail.

Other observations:

You had used much more lean angle in previous corners which suggests you are ok with lean angle. The reason you are ok with more lean in the previous corners is because you scanned into the corner with your eyes at the right time.


This crash started with the habit of entering a blind corner while on the throttle. (bike does not steer as well and wants to run wide).

The final straw was that you looked at the guard rail instead of into the corner.
Another spot on analysis, with lots of food for thought, thanks again for helping me be a better and safer rider

I'm really glad I had the video and totally amazed at the level of detail some you guys were able to call out from just the couple of minutes provided.
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