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Old 09-03-2020, 04:10 PM   #16
W800
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Update:

I wrote a detailed email last night to the dealer. I also "CC'ed" Roy Creed, who is the Vice President of Kawasaki USA, and a couple of other people there. The point of my email was that (1) problem has occurred from new, (2) "EPA" and "warranty" are two different things, (3) potentially violating EPA rules should not automatically invalidate this particular warranty as it's written, (4) even if the warranty is not applicable, general defective product laws and cases still apply, (5) if the dealer / Kawasaki USA do not wish to honor the factory warranty as a result of my mods, then the extended warranty I bought is also essentially worthless, (6) from a mechanical perspective, nothing I have done is actually capable of only affecting one cylinder.

Kudos to the dealership for getting back to me this morning. I am aware that they may be reading this thread. So I am just keeping it real. What's in the thread is what I told the dealer, and it's also what's in the email.

The nice thing about truth is that it's self-proving.

EDIT: TY to mods for merging the two threads I made on this issue.

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Originally Posted by W800 View Post
Update. I went on the W800 FB group and chatted with some other W800 owners.

Someone told me that they had a similar issue. It was the fuel injector. Apparently (like mine) the bike had sat on dealer floor for a long time. Mine's a 2019, so at least 12 months, if not longer.

My plan is to contact Kawasaki USA via phone and see what they say. I did mod some stuff, but I didn't do anything that would make one side *only* miss. That sets aside the point that it was missing from delivery. What the mods DID do was make it much easier to notice the miss.

I also didn't touch injectors. They are $100 each. Not going to mess around with those!!!

Does anyone know the best phone number, other than 866-802-9381 for Kawasaki USA?

Does anyone with dealer connections know whether there is an ombudsman? I totally get the warranty issues. But a warranty is meaningless if I am held to blame for something I did not do.

Last edited by W800; 09-03-2020 at 07:06 PM..
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Old 09-04-2020, 08:30 AM   #17
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In order to prove your theory, can you swap the left with the right injector?
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Old 09-04-2020, 09:02 AM   #18
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I own a Kawasaki. I generally like the company. But back in 1986 Kawasaki had thousands of bikes sold with really bad intake valves. The hard coating on the valve face was bad. My friends Ninja 1000 actually swallowed a valve. I contacted Kawasaki and, at first, they denied the problem existed. I explained I was a tech at a shop and I knew for a fact that what they saying wasn't true. They finally offered to supply parts. Refused labor

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Old 09-04-2020, 11:29 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
In order to prove your theory, can you swap the left with the right injector?
Yes. Hoping dealer will try that so they don't blame me!

P.S. - The piggy back ECU I am using doesn't do different maps for each cylinder. What it does do is digital PWM (pulse width modulation), kind of like how a digital audio EQ would work.

It simply takes whatever signal is going to the injector and makes it last a portion of a millisecond longer or shorter. What this means is that you can also swap "sides" with the piggyback ECU.
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:38 AM   #20
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No, you swap injectors to find a bad injector. If you swap injectors and the problem stay with the cylinder, it's not the injector. If the problem moves with the injector, it's a bad injector. Electronically swapping injectors only proves the problem is upstream from the injector.
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:39 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Maddevill View Post
I own a Kawasaki. I generally like the company. But back in 1986 Kawasaki had thousands of bikes sold with really bad intake valves. The hard coating on the valve face was bad. My friends Ninja 1000 actually swallowed a valve. I contacted Kawasaki and, at first, they denied the problem existed. I explained I was a tech at a shop and I knew for a fact that what they saying wasn't true. They finally offered to supply parts. Refused labor

Mad
Yes, this is my second Kawasaki. I like them too. I had a first generation KLR I bought new in the 00's. Rock solid. So that experience is partially why I went with the brand.

What I should have remembered is the old adage to never buy the first year of a new model. Even though they have been making W's now for something like 20 years, these are slightly different since they modded them to conform to Euro 4 smog and safety.

It's my hope that there's not some inherent defect as a result. The issue with the missing is I have to let the bike warm up a long time before I feel comfortable riding it. When it's still in the "missing stage," it wants to stall quite easily.
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Old 09-04-2020, 12:03 PM   #22
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UPDATE:

Spoke with dealer SM just now. We are working on an agreement to where they will fix bike. The agreement we are working on is if they diagnose the issue, and it's "my bad," I pay for them to fix it. If they diagnose the issue, and it's "their bad," then warranty covers it. It's my hope that the people at Kawasaki USA will agree to this reasonable compromise.

Otherwise, then becomes this huge PITA with me sending certified letters to their legal counsel and stuff like that (I used to be product liability lawyer, don't practice anymore). What happens in matters like this is that their corporate office ends up spending more money in legal costs (in-house counsel are not "free" - it's lost opportunity cost on their end) than it would have cost them to simply fix what I am asserting is their defect.

I don't think anyone wants this to happen.

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Originally Posted by dravnx View Post
No, you swap injectors to find a bad injector. If you swap injectors and the problem stay with the cylinder, it's not the injector. If the problem moves with the injector, it's a bad injector. Electronically swapping injectors only proves the problem is upstream from the injector.
I get that. I rebuilt my first small motor in 1975. Can weld. Can operate lathe. Have pulled or changed motors, transmissions, clutches, differentials, etc. Have even rewired vehicles with new wiring harnesses.

The reason I don't work as a mechanic for a living is I prefer to do other things to earn money. But I totally like doing mechanical stuff on my own vehicles.

If this wasn't under warranty, I would totally swap the injectors. After that I would check valve clearance. After that, pull head and look at valves and rings. In my estimation, it's something mechanical or electromechanical. That's why heat appears to make it go away.

Swapping plugs tomorrow.

Dealer is supposed to get back to me today. Will update thread when they do.

Last edited by W800; 09-04-2020 at 04:12 PM..
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Old 09-11-2020, 04:53 PM   #23
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No way is a dealer going to warranty any repair with all your mods.
Update:

Both the dealer and a representative from Kawasaki USA corporate called me today, and they are both working on this to make it right. Out of respect for what they are doing to resolve this issue, I won't substantively comment further in this thread unless a fair resolution is not reached.

From my perspective right now, it looks like both the dealer and Kawasaki USA are sincere in their desire to resolve the issue.

As I have maintained in this thread, and in my emails to Kawasaki corporate and the dealer, and in my oral discussions with the dealer and Kawasaki corporate, (1) the problem existed before the mods, and (2) even assuming arguendo that the problem did not exist before the mods, the logical fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc applies, since nothing I have done is capable of only affecting only one cylinder. The missing and popping on #2 is simply more noticeable now that the bike is louder.

This is a very good update, and kudos to the dealer and KUSA for doing the right thing here.

/W
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Old 09-12-2020, 08:27 AM   #24
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When / if they fix it, please let us know the course of the problem. May help someone later to look at the right things.
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:34 AM   #25
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When / if they fix it, please let us know the course of the problem. May help someone later to look at the right things.
Will do.
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:54 PM   #26
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Random comment... when aluminum grows while heating, holes get bigger not smaller.
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Old 09-12-2020, 10:53 PM   #27
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Random comment... when aluminum grows while heating, holes get bigger not smaller.
You are right. Lol, I stand corrected!

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/t...als-d_859.html

My theory about the plug was wrong anyway. Still was missing on #2 even with new and properly tightened plug. Other than that, can't comment much except to say that Kawasaki USA and the dealer are really working hard to troubleshoot this, and for that, I have a great deal of respect for them.

Last edited by W800; 09-12-2020 at 11:46 PM..
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Old 09-27-2020, 03:07 AM   #28
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Random comment... when aluminum grows while heating, holes get bigger not smaller.
In addition to aluminum, this applies for most materials. However, rubber is one notable exception.
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Old 09-27-2020, 12:57 PM   #29
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In addition to aluminum, this applies for most materials. However, rubber is one notable exception.
Hmmmm. . .

This might be a clue. The shop is still working on the bike. They switched injectors and problem persisted on #2. So that rules out injectors.

I'm wondering if there's something made out of rubber that might be leaking air when cold and then sealing up when hot? It doesn't do the missing when the bike is first started (like first 5 seconds). That's when the injectors are just dumping in fuel. It's only after that, but before the bike warms up - that it misses.

Even after warming up, it's also still a little lean on #2 compared to #1. But not random popping. Just the normal overrun popping these bikes do. Plug also a little lighter on #2.

More I think about this - the more I think it really is an air issue somewhere.
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Old 09-27-2020, 02:32 PM   #30
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In addition to aluminum, this applies for most materials. However, rubber is one notable exception.
Interesting I didn't think of that one. I wonder if there are any other materials that do that.
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