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Old 04-19-2016, 11:39 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by louemc View Post
Lower weight means different things to different people (riders).

It's a bigger issue to riders that never did anything to learn how to manage weight,
riding in knarly rough conditions (DIRT).

The riders that have a background, have learned the technique... And Deal.
I've had over 500lb bikes, bike in the 400lb range, bikes in the 300lb range and a bike in the 200lb range.

This thread is not about heavy bikes or powerful bikes, quite the contrary.
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:53 AM   #92
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I've had over 500lb bikes, bike in the 400lb range, bikes in the 300lb range and a bike in the 200lb range.

This thread is not about heavy bikes or powerful bikes, quite the contrary.
Don't notice any mention of what you Did with those bikes...

And..... not doing anything with them (in knarly Rough surfaces) to learn how to manage weight, is an issue, no matter what you say..
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:47 AM   #93
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Don't notice any mention of what you Did with those bikes...

And..... not doing anything with them (in knarly Rough surfaces) to learn how to manage weight, is an issue, no matter what you say..
Again, you are way off topic.

Take it to another thread and quit crapping on this one without adding anything of value to the topic at hand.
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Old 06-14-2016, 01:49 PM   #94
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I have had fun on low power bikes, and I have had fun on high power bikes. IMO it depends on the application more than anything.
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:49 PM   #95
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Awesome write up by the OP. I am a new rider myself, always loved bikes but did not trust my impulse control enough to get one until I got older. Right, so I picked up a salvaged Ninja 300 thinking that I will get bored of it and resell within a few month, but 4000 miles or so later, I still love that thing. Anyway, I have been in to the car scene for a long time, and the answer to any question there is "a Miata", I think the same thing should hold true in the bike world: a lighweight, underpowered, and buttoned up motorcycle like a Ninja 300, or one of the many supermoto conversions is an ideal way to have fun and improve your technique at the same time.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:47 PM   #96
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Awesome write up by the OP. I am a new rider myself, always loved bikes but did not trust my impulse control enough to get one until I got older. Right, so I picked up a salvaged Ninja 300 thinking that I will get bored of it and resell within a few month, but 4000 miles or so later, I still love that thing. Anyway, I have been in to the car scene for a long time, and the answer to any question there is "a Miata", I think the same thing should hold true in the bike world: a lighweight, underpowered, and buttoned up motorcycle like a Ninja 300, or one of the many supermoto conversions is an ideal way to have fun and improve your technique at the same time.
Love my MX5 too!
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:49 PM   #97
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I feel that heavy and/or powerful bikes are quite detrimental to learning.

As a case in point.. when I was racing 250 Production in the mid-90s, Saturday practice was grouped by laptime. In my group was a guy on a Ducati 916. I'd blow by him in the corners (on those cheesy Dunlop K591 bias-plys), he'd pass on the straights. And so on, for the whole first year.

I think it's safe to say the guy never learned to ride during that year, while I pushed that Ninja 250 to the ragged edge (and beyond), and I don't know what happened later as I moved on to Formula 3.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:57 AM   #98
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I enjoyed my Ninja 250, love my R3....oh and I have "a Miata"

Something very personally satisfying knowing that I made a difference in how fast something with no power went.
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Old 12-16-2016, 03:52 PM   #99
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My take has always been that HP/Torque is like brakes. When you really need them suddenly having more than the minimum is a good thing. Then, sometimes you just want it.

The peach you can't have is sour, as the saying goes. Motorcycling isn't about needs mostly, its about wants. There are no rules that say if you have 100 hp and tons of torque that you must use it all, just control the right hand.

You can have a blast riding a 35 hp bike or one with far less but that has zero to do with any bike having more. Power doesnt have to be heavy, unmanageable or less fun going around a turn than some bike with half as much.

How many of us wish for less power? Not many I'd guess although somewhere they exist.

Merging onto a freeway, hit a long straight after a tight turn what is more fun, pushing to 60 like a mad dog chasing a squirrel (safely) or a leisurely glide knowing 65 will take only a few minutes more?

Who among us hasn't when starting out with a lower powered bike, not found some downhill just to feel what a bit more accelleration or speed feels like. Come in, we've all done it.

Alameda/Oakland Tube anyone? Back in the day that is where Honda 200s, Kawasaki 250 Triples and Yamaha Rds went so riders could have a go and find out what 750 Fours and Saki 500 must have felt like.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:26 PM   #100
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I suspect there are ten people in the AFM who could stomp your butt at a racetrack while riding a Ninja 250, with you on your bike of choice.
Ok, Sacramento 1/4 mile. They are on a 250 ninja I am on a GSXR1300R. I win 10 times out of 10.

I would also take my chances at Sepang, Phillips Island, Elkhart lake and or Daytona. They are on a Ninja 250 and I am on a Ninja ZX-10. I think I could overcome any talent deficiency there with HP as well.

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Old 12-17-2016, 10:52 AM   #101
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My take has always been that HP/Torque is like brakes. When you really need them suddenly having more than the minimum is a good thing. Then, sometimes you just want it.

The peach you can't have is sour, as the saying goes. Motorcycling isn't about needs mostly, its about wants. There are no rules that say if you have 100 hp and tons of torque that you must use it all, just control the right hand.

You can have a blast riding a 35 hp bike or one with far less but that has zero to do with any bike having more. Power doesnt have to be heavy, unmanageable or less fun going around a turn than some bike with half as much.

How many of us wish for less power? Not many I'd guess although somewhere they exist.

Merging onto a freeway, hit a long straight after a tight turn what is more fun, pushing to 60 like a mad dog chasing a squirrel (safely) or a leisurely glide knowing 65 will take only a few minutes more?

Who among us hasn't when starting out with a lower powered bike, not found some downhill just to feel what a bit more accelleration or speed feels like. Come in, we've all done it.

Alameda/Oakland Tube anyone? Back in the day that is where Honda 200s, Kawasaki 250 Triples and Yamaha Rds went so riders could have a go and find out what 750 Fours and Saki 500 must have felt like.
Sure, but many of us who own smaller bikes SOLD much faster/powerful/heavier bikes because they SAT after purchasing the smaller bike for backroad blasting duty.

Many of us also keep a more versatile/powerful bike on hand for freeway/touring duty.

As the roads deteriorate a "fast" sportbike turns out to be no "faster" for backroad blasting duty and light weight is a joy in those conditions.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:44 PM   #102
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Sure, but many of us who own smaller bikes SOLD much faster/powerful/heavier bikes because they SAT after purchasing the smaller bike for backroad blasting duty.

Many of us also keep a more versatile/powerful bike on hand for freeway/touring duty.

As the roads deteriorate a "fast" sportbike turns out to be no "faster" for backroad blasting duty and light weight is a joy in those conditions.
Agreed and why a Hawk sits next to the Bandit.

Aside from my alias, fast is overrated. Sometimes fast is confused with quick. IMO, fast is a function of the use of throttle, regardless of how much HP a bike has. Quick is a result of high quality riding skills which matched to the road and bikes performance is the great equalizer.

I rode a Kawasaki 250 2 stroke triple long ago. It was light and power limited. It wasn't easy to ride because the powerband was very narrow and if you weren't prepared for it, wheelies were waiting. The quality of the power is far more important than how light, heavy, small or big a bike is.

On Highway 35, my friend rode a Honda 550F, I has the last year of the sohc 750F. No matter what, that 550 was untouchable in the curves although we were neck and neck in skill. He simply ran around the inside, outside. On the straights though, I could reel him in just in time for the next curve. He cherished the handling of the 550F, I relished the acceleration of the big 750F.

It didn't really matter because the burgers always came off the grill at Alices at the same time.

The OP is 100% in that great riding times can be had on lower power bikes and nothing takes away from that. Likewise, the higher HP bikes offer their own style of fun and neither takes anything away from the other. Now, get a meatless burger when you rode a while for a real one and then things change.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:14 AM   #103
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Ninja 250's can be stupid fun in the twisties... just keep it pinned. No brakes required.

The new ones don't look bad either.

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Old 04-07-2017, 01:34 PM   #104
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As others have said... it's situational/depends on the application.

Having tight corners and narrow roads... lighter/smaller bikes seem to do better and are far more fun (Well, and easy, too..) to ride.

Having long sweeping bends, long straightaways, and wide open roads, heavier/bigger bikes are more fun to ride.. they feel far more planted, and yeah, going a tad fast when it's safe to do so is fun.


I suppose if anyone is really looking for a challenge, big bikes + tight corners can be a very interesting scenario. I honestly think it takes a lot more skill modulating throttle/clutch in 1st and second gear on a big bike (And being sure to hit/link all the turns just right to stay in your own lane) than it does to wring the throttle of a little bike on a little road, where you can change your line pretty much whenever you want.
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:14 PM   #105
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I started out on dirt and small bikes so I get what the OP is saying. I also feel that if you can ride a bike to its limits it's time to move up. The whole "slow bike fast" thing sounds good as a rationalization but it really just translates into it's time to move up.
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