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Old 12-31-2009, 07:54 PM   #16
sanjuro
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Originally Posted by ontherearwheel View Post
If rider safety and training are of such great concern here on BARF, how came there is no real world rider mentoring program offered by BARF?

Instead of alot of post that seem more like preaching than teaching, put into real action a "on the road" training program.

Give the people who want real world training, and not MSF in the parking lot training, a place to get it.
Doc Wong gives beginner clinics all the time.
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Old 12-31-2009, 08:35 PM   #17
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Seriously experienced riders should seek out and mentor newbies
How do you think that will play out? Maybe it should be the other way around?

I'm happy to help a newer rider, and have done so. That said, the newer rider has to be open to feedback. It's a two way street.

As another poster noted, Doc Wong provides a tremendous service to Bay Area riders.

Back to Bud's point though, the first thing is to get licensed, and one of the best ways to do that is to take the MSF.
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Old 01-02-2010, 09:01 PM   #18
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Absolutely! I have one moto-mentor....super helpful.
One year and 13K miles later I feel a bit less like a newb. I'm also 39 and careful. I dont want anyone but me changing my diaper, I mean undies!
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:17 AM   #19
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There are so many things that bug me about some riders (read: the immature dumbshit ones), and this is one of the top ones. There's really no good excuse for operating ANY vehicle without being properly licensed.

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Old 01-08-2010, 12:40 AM   #20
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Come to think of it, each time you jump on the bike should be a learning expierence of some sorts whether it's postive or negative. I don't think there's a rider out there who can truly say "I've mastered riding."
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:43 AM   #21
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Absolutely. You could ride every day of your life until you're 97, and you still wouldn't have "mastered" it.

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Old 01-08-2010, 06:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Pking View Post
Come to think of it, each time you jump on the bike should be a learning expierence of some sorts whether it's postive or negative.
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Originally Posted by DaveT319 View Post
Absolutely. You could ride every day of your life until you're 97, and you still wouldn't have "mastered" it.
Yeah, but you have to work to make it happen. You could ride every day until you're 97 and still be fairly mediocre if you didn't try to learn from each ride.

Given the fact that even after 97 years of trying to learn that there would still be more...we need to double time it on the learning aspect of riding! We're always behind!

That's what makes riding/driving/skateboarding great for me, constant learning.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:15 AM   #23
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I can't jump on the responsibility of the seller BandWagon though. No matter which way I look at it, the seller can't determine critical things, in the buyers future path. What the buyer has done, and personality is like, can be seen/judged/evaluatied, pretty good... but, no matter what, it is the buyers responsibility to be responsible, period.
A private seller can at least ask to see the buyer's drivers license, and verify that it has a motorcycle endorsement.

If the buyer refuses to show their license, the seller has no obligation to sell the bike.

That's a very minimal standard, and it's easy to argue that an endorsement doesn't guarantee competence or common sense, but given the statistics that budman quoted, it will weed out the highest risk individuals.

To address the suggestion that a group like BARF should offer rider mentoring or training; that's a huge undertaking.
Consider the risk of some "mentored" newbie crashing and taking his mentors to court for damages. That would require at the very least, a large insurance policy for the organisation offering the service.
How do they select qualified trainers? Is there training for the trainers? Not just on "how to teach someone to ride", but on the legal responsibilities, etc. that might be involved.
Where do they do the training? Is it a good idea to offer a formal "mentoring" session on a public road, where any number of things might go wrong?
I could list other issues, but I'm late for work as it is...
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:23 AM   #24
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That's what makes riding/driving/skateboarding great for me, constant learning.
Living is constant learning. Mastery is achievable in anything, but there's always more to learn.
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Old 01-08-2010, 08:33 AM   #25
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I was 16, unlicensed, no helmet, riding my first EVER bike (RD350) in the East Bay. Then when I was 18 I joined the military and had to take one of those MSF courses to get on base. Still no license or helmet when I lrode off base, moved up to a Ninja 600. What kept me from being a statistic - I don't really know other than luck. But I always did have a hard head and a natural respect for the power of a motorcycle.

I think the culture of stunting and racing plays a huge part in today's generation, which is why I LOVE video's like Keith Code's Twist II - because he goes into real world riding techniques and encourages young riders to take it to the track. That is where it belongs.
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Old 01-08-2010, 08:36 AM   #26
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This is the only Western country that allows undocumented riders to purchase a bike from a dealer. Pretty much everywhere else, the dealer is required to verify that the buyer has the appropriate license and proof of insurance before he can transfer title.

AFAIK, automobile dealers in the US have this obligation - so why not Moto dealers?
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Old 01-08-2010, 08:38 AM   #27
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AFAIK, automobile dealers in the US have this obligation - so why not Moto dealers?
Moto's are toys
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:44 AM   #28
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I'm out of the loop due to WoW overdose, can someone please explain to me what a "sprotbile" is?

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Old 01-08-2010, 09:50 AM   #29
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I'm out of the loop due to WoW overdose, can someone please explain to me what a "sprotbile" is?

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It is an amazing stat.. some say stats don't count.. but if someone sees this and decides I need to get training and a license then it is a big stat win.

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Old 01-08-2010, 01:27 PM   #30
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Moto's are toys
My point exactly. If you need to prove license and insurance for a "toy" why not a moto?
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