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Old 09-19-2013, 07:44 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by DataDan View Post
................The Compound Curve

With just one more car in sight on this high-speed rural two-lane, you're itching to get past it to enjoy the next 10 miles of moto-bliss. You wick it up to triple digits and pull ahead, but you're quickly approaching a left-hand sweeper with a poor sightline, so you're anxious to get back to your lane. You swerve right and cross the centerline, but you can't get the bike turned and run off the right shoulder.

To complete the pass you swerve right to get back to your lane. Then, to terminate the right swerve, you must swerve left to straighten the bike out. But at the same time, you're entering the left-hand bend and you must initiate that turn as well. Thus the left swerve requires a substantially harder steering input than otherwise needed to finish the lane change or enter the sweeper, and high speed increases the demand even more. Headed toward the guardrail at an alarmingly sharp angle, you fall victim to target fixation, undeveloped steering instinct, or sheer panic, and you hit it.

A mirror image of the crash described here (passing on the right approaching a right-hand bend) is seen in this video, which was discussed in this BARF thread.

Get your passing done on straight roadway, so you don't have to deal with unknown elements in a curve.


.........................................
As always Dan, I really appreciate the effort you make to present us with insightful information


I'm pretty sure I've done all the other errors you've listed in this post ( and lived ) but the one on "compound curves" got me thinking.

So.... on my commute home, I get to take 1 270deg , downhill, righthand cloverleaf sweeper. My typical ploy is to get upset and tailgate when stuck behind a slow vehicle, or make the "WHEEEEEEE" sound all the way around, on those rare occasions when I get to take it solo.

Since reading this post, I decided to make good use of my time and try some "S" turns when stuck behind slower traffic.


HOOOLLLEEE SHH*T !

It was not like any riding experience I've ever had. I'm still trying to figure out why it feels so strange, but I'm thinking that the front tire is getting loaded WAY more than I'm used to/ comfortable with.

Any insights on why the turn to get back on line feels so strange ?
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But ducky, massive government subsidized projects to rebuild our failing road infrastructure is socialism!
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:24 AM   #32
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Sometimes a pass that looks safe at first glance really isn't.

It was from this vantage point that a Colorado Ducati rider pulled out to pass another vehicle Sunday...



But the hillside beyond the slight right curve ahead hid an oncoming Hayabusa. And to make matters worse, entering the right curve made it that much harder for the 1199 rider to swerve back into the right lane. The two motorcycles collided head-on, killing both riders.



When making a pass, carefully assess the roadway you're committing to and an equal distance beyond where you expect to complete the pass, in order to spot conflicting traffic.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:08 PM   #33
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The Ducati rider made a bad call, passing on a blind corner is never a good idea.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:58 AM   #34
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The Ducati rider made a bad call, passing on a blind corner is never a good idea.
The point is that it doesn't seem like a blind corner is coming up when giving a cursory glance. I'm fairly sure that the Ducati rider didn't think "oh look, a blind corner coming up, that's my opportunity to pass!"

The article just mentions excessive speed as a contributing factor; from both riders?
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:04 AM   #35
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Another error that can be made when passing is not paying enough attention to the road beyond the vehicle being passed. This rider got by the slower motorcycle but wasn't prepared for the blind turn ahead.

[removed dead YouTube link]
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:17 AM   #36
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Three incidents this week remind us to consider passes carefully. The motorcycle's maneuverability and speed can tempt you to gas it and go when another vehicle is in your way, but a hasty move can have serious consequences (as we have seen in BARF threads over the years).

In western Pennsylvania a motorcyclist following another vehicle took this exit...



...and initiated a pass where the offramp widens into a city street. But due to the combination of his left swerve to make the pass and a right curve in the road, he wasn't able to get the bike turned. He ran off the road on the left, went through a graveled parking lot, hit shrubbery, and died. This was a tragic example of a compound curve crash: the passing maneuver combined with a road curve created an unexpected steering demand.


Near Asbury Park, New Jersey, a rider attempted to pass two vehicles in this residential area...



...but failed to notice that the lead vehicle was signaling to turn left (diagram from the Ocean City Signal article linked above). The rider suffered broken bones but is expected to survive. Passer vs. passee is the most common fatal passing crash in the Bay Area.


Near Lawrence, Kansas, a rider attempted a pass in this curve...



...but failed to notice two oncoming motorcycles. The passing rider was killed and the rider of one oncoming motorcycle was injured. Pass only when you have a clear view to the distance it will take to complete the pass PLUS an equal distance beyond that point to allow for oncoming traffic.
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Last edited by DataDan; 09-19-2020 at 03:42 PM.. Reason: updated map code
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:16 AM   #37
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Interesting read. I don't get how two motorcycles can crash head on, on a small swerve could save both. Unless they swerve in the same direction? Really unlucky, I'd assume only in a really blind turn such a scenario could happen.

In Brazil, when in a group riding, as the guy in front passes a slower car in a difficult spot to look far ahead (say, a canyon rd), we'd all use our turn signals. If the leader completes the pass, he would keep himself on the LEFT part of the lane (or even on TOP of a double yellow if it's a really curvy road or if the car they just pass is a truck) with the blinkers indicating a left turn, meaning: DON"T PASS NOW, either because there's a car coming, or because he just can't see much. When he then accelerates and stay a few car lengths ahead, he would first turn his indicators right, meaning now it's safe to pass from my POV, use your judgment, I'm giving you room now. The following rider would do the same, never just disappearing from view and leaving the rider behind with no help.

Last edited by IAmA M0t0r Ridεr; 05-14-2014 at 08:18 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by IAmA M0t0r Ridεr View Post
Interesting read. I don't get how two motorcycles can crash head on, on a small swerve could save both. Unless they swerve in the same direction? Really unlucky, I'd assume only in a really blind turn such a scenario could happen.
It has happened in all kinds of turns, including the one in Colorado in post #32. I think you overestimate the time it takes to occur and underestimate the time it takes to perceive it and change direction.


Quote:
In Brazil, when in a group riding, as the guy in front passes a slower car in a difficult spot to look far ahead (say, a canyon rd), we'd all use our turn signals. If the leader completes the pass, he would keep himself on the LEFT part of the lane (or even on TOP of a double yellow if it's a really curvy road or if the car they just pass is a truck) with the blinkers indicating a left turn, meaning: DON"T PASS NOW, either because there's a car coming, or because he just can't see much. When he then accelerates and stay a few car lengths ahead, he would first turn his indicators right, meaning now it's safe to pass from my POV, use your judgment, I'm giving you room now. The following rider would do the same, never just disappearing from view and leaving the rider behind with no help.
I strongly recommend against using someone else's judgment when making a pass.

Pass only when you can see WITH YOUR OWN EYES that you have enough road to complete it safely.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:32 AM   #39
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I strongly recommend against using someone else's judgment when making a pass.

Pass only when you can see WITH YOUR OWN EYES that you have enough road to complete it safely.
I disagree. It can help. Ultimately it's on you, but at least it tells you when it's a good time to take a peek.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:14 AM   #40
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Interesting read. I don't get how two motorcycles can crash head on, on a small swerve could save both. Unless they swerve in the same direction? Really unlucky, I'd assume only in a really blind turn such a scenario could happen.

In Brazil, when in a group riding, as the guy in front passes a slower car in a difficult spot to look far ahead (say, a canyon rd), we'd all use our turn signals. If the leader completes the pass, he would keep himself on the LEFT part of the lane (or even on TOP of a double yellow if it's a really curvy road or if the car they just pass is a truck) with the blinkers indicating a left turn, meaning: DON"T PASS NOW, either because there's a car coming, or because he just can't see much. When he then accelerates and stay a few car lengths ahead, he would first turn his indicators right, meaning now it's safe to pass from my POV, use your judgment, I'm giving you room now. The following rider would do the same, never just disappearing from view and leaving the rider behind with no help.
I guess this is a Latin-american thing; I used it in car groups back in the day. But I hope you got left and right blinkers switched wrong... Otherwise a colombo-brazilian group would be a deadly cocktail.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:43 AM   #41
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Great post. Another thing to keep in mind is that when attempting to pass a line of slow cars you must anticipate another driver up ahead might do the same thing and hasn't seen you.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:29 PM   #42
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I guess this is a Latin-american thing; I used it in car groups back in the day. But I hope you got left and right blinkers switched wrong... Otherwise a colombo-brazilian group would be a deadly cocktail.
Nope, this is how we'd do it. You turn your blink left, means YOU're going left, why would one pass then? You turn your right, means you may even go to a shoulder/turn around location, than means, check, go.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:03 PM   #43
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Nope, this is how we'd do it. You turn your blink left, means YOU're going left, why would one pass then? You turn your right, means you may even go to a shoulder/turn around location, than means, check, go.
Deadly cocktail indeed. Our logic was: left blinker means safe to overtake (on the left); right blinker means stay on, or return to, your lane (we drive on the right side of the road)
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:41 PM   #44
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Old 05-23-2014, 05:36 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by IAmA M0t0r Ridεr View Post
Interesting read. I don't get how two motorcycles can crash head on, on a small swerve could save both. Unless they swerve in the same direction? Really unlucky, I'd assume only in a really blind turn such a scenario could happen.
Apparently, you have not really noticed the closing rate of two vehicles traveling in opposite directions at say 65 mph. There actually might not be time to do anything, depending on the circumstances.
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I strongly recommend against using someone else's judgment when making a pass.

Pass only when you can see WITH YOUR OWN EYES that you have enough road to complete it safely.
This seems like an obvious road survival idea, but apparently it is not so obvious to some.
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I disagree. It can help. Ultimately it's on you, but at least it tells you when it's a good time to take a peek.
Why would you entrust someone else with your life that you don't know? We do it enough just riding in our lane. How do you know what they see? What if they are half blind, or drugged, or just can't judge closing rates (most people can't judge speeds very well, btw).

Then there is the possibility of nefarious behavior. Yes, this happens, too. And once you have been the victim of someone attempting to have you pass at an inappropriate moment, you will never trust anyone again. Well, if you are wise. And yes, this has happened to me. I would never trust a stranger to indicate a safe pass for me.
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