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Old 09-30-2013, 01:22 PM   #16
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I guess I should've been more clear that I was referring to this part of PacknRat's writing, Geoff. Writing is never my forte.

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Originally Posted by packnrat View Post
... even in a rig pulling a brightly painted 48 foot van we still get hit and the other driver says they did not see us, or he (the truck) pulled out in front of them. right sure i have to go through 6 gears to get up to 20 mph.
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:13 AM   #17
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A San Diego motorcyclist was seriously injured yesterday in another crash where view between rider and driver was blocked by intervening vehicles.

At this intersection...



...northbound (oncoming) traffic was stopped, backed up from an intersection 100yd ahead, but the KEEP CLEAR area was being kept clear. As the southbound motorcyclist approached, a vehicle crossing from the rider's left entered the his path, and the two collided.

The crash is clearly the driver's fault. But a cautious approach by the motorcyclist into an area where his view to a potential threat was blocked might have prevented it.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:25 AM   #18
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Once again, a reminder that when a driver says he or she "didn't see the motorcycle" before the crash, often it's because the view between driver and rider was screened by another vehicle.

Yesterday in Wesley Chapel, Florida, a 20-year-old GSX-R600 rider was killed in a crash identical to the one from the Hurt report described in the OP of this thread. At the intersection shown below, the westbound motorcycle in the outside lane, hidden from view by a westbound van in the inside lane, collided with an eastbound Mazda as it turned left.



Hurt suggests:
The strategy appropriate for the motorcycle rider is to ride abreast, or ahead, or much farther behind the van so that he (or she) could see and be seen. The strategic position is important to insure a clear view of prospective challenges of right-of-way, and high conspicuity should increase the likelihood of being seen.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:19 AM   #19
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The Sudden Exposure Rear-Ender

In the OP, I included a rear-ender where a rider merged into a lane to which he had a poor view--only to find slower traffic. Following too closely behind a box truck, he couldn't see the adjacent lane until he had merged, and he didn't have enough space to brake.

In another recent crash, poor view also led to a motorcyclist rear-ending a vehicle ahead--but not because the rider changed lanes. Rather, it was because the vehicle ahead of him changed lanes. That vehicle had screened the rider's view to a Suburban towing a trailer ahead of it. When traffic ahead slowed, the screening vehicle "abruptly switched lanes", suddenly exposing the rider to the slowing Suburban. He rear-ended it and was killed.

Both of these rear-enders could have been prevented with enough following distance to see beyond the vehicle immediately ahead, so the rider could anticipate the problem he was about to encounter. One of The Top Ten Things I Like About Following Distance, and one of its less appreciated virtues, is:
It improves my forward field of view. The farther I am behind the vehicle in front of me, the smaller the visual obstruction to traffic ahead.
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:29 PM   #20
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In the OP I included this example of how one vehicle screening out the view to another can contribute to a crash:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DataDan View Post
  • Entering a freeway, a motorcyclist merged into the #4 lane behind a box truck, then merged into the #3. But traffic in the #3 was moving much slower, and he rear-ended another vehicle. The truck in the #4 had blocked his view to stalled traffic in the #3.
I call this a "blind-merge rear-ender" and have several examples in my archive of news stories, including one where a rider used the shoulder to pass a truck, only to hit a stopped cop car. DERP!

In the thread Riding too slowly, Junkie posted this animated GIF of a near-BMRE with roles reversed--a driver as the perp and a motorcyclist as the lucky non-victim (view as a video here):



As I wrote in the thread Five Ways to Crash (plus one):
The lesson here is to be able to see the lane you're merging into. Impatience may tempt you to make a quick swerve to avoid a slowdown in your lane, but don't give in to the urge. If you're behind a vehicle you can't see over, around, or through, use following distance and advantageous lane position to gain a good view into the destination lane before making your move.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:45 PM   #21
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Do you split lanes in city traffic because you think it makes you safer? If you don't understand the risks and take the necessary precautions, you're just fooling yourself. You may be putting yourself in danger unknowingly.

A Florida rider died today when he split between two "large vehicles" at an intersection and hit an oncoming van as it turned left.

As he approached this signal southbound...



...the green light turned yellow, then red. He split the other vehicles--a Honda Ridgeline pickup in the #1 lane, apparently--when they stopped for the changing light. As he entered the intersection, a northbound van completed its left turn, and the two collided.

The slowing vehicle in the #1 lane screened the view between the rider and the van, so neither could see the other until it was too late.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:56 PM   #22
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Another reminder today that "motorcycle hit by left-turning car" doesn't always mean what you think.

From just about every discussion on BARF and other forums, as well as what we're taught in rider training, we have come to expect that left-turner crashes occur with the motorcycle in full view of the driver. So the logical conclusion is that he was reckless or distracted, or intentionally put the motorcyclist at risk. But if you have followed this thread or any of several others in 1Rider, you know better. Often, the driver can't see the motorcycle--NOR CAN THE RIDER SEE THE CAR--because of intervening terrain, roadside clutter, or other vehicles.

Yesterday afternoon in Tampa, a motorcycle traveling from right to left here...



...was hit by a van turning left into the business park at the top of the photo. But the rider, "weaving through traffic at high speeds," was in the bicycle lane passing slower traffic. In that position, he couldn't have seen the left-turn threat, nor could the driver have seen him.

It's tempting to discount this crash because the rider was in the bike lane. But the same thing can happen--and HAS HAPPENED--to motorcyclists passing in a legal lane. The crucial elements contributing to this crash were excessive speed and sudden exposure from behind a line of intervening traffic, not his bonehead use of the bicycle lane.


The conventional wisdom is that left-turner crashes are unpredictable and unpreventable by the motorcyclist. All you can do is wear good gear--bright colors, hoping to be seen, and effective protection if you're not.

But often that is not true. Many occur because the pre-crash sightline is blocked. Those crashes are easily preventable with good situational awareness and countermeasures. For more info, see the OP of this thread.
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Old 05-31-2014, 08:34 AM   #23
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In a crash similar to others that appear in this thread and the 1Rider thread Traffic Tactics: Left-Turning Vehicles, a Phoenix rider was killed Thursday when he collided with a pickup turning left from a driveway on the rider's right.

Here...



...northbound vehicles in the #2 and #3 lanes stopped to allow a pickup to exit the complex on the east side. But a motorcyclist in the #1 continued past them and hit the pickup before it completed its turn:



Because of the intervening vehicles in the #2 and #3 lanes, the pickup driver couldn't see the motorcycle, and the rider couldn't see the pickup. Then, when the sightline opened up, it was too late.

If you've followed posts in this thread, you probably understood the problem immediately. If this is your first visit, scroll through the rest of this thread and the thread linked above to see how view obstruction can contribute to motorcycle crashes and how you can recognize the situation as it develops and prevent a crash.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:12 PM   #24
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An obstruction can also block your view to a red-light runner:

Here, it's the structure supporting the overpass:



youtu.be/ebIGlxKDT6k



Here, it's a car turning right from the left cross-street:



youtu.be/jr6R5dQa8hY

If you don't have a clear view to a potential cross-traffic threat, take a little extra time and launch more cautiously to ensure safe passage through the intersection.
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DataDan View Post
An obstruction can also block your view to a red-light runner:

Here, it's the structure supporting the overpass:



youtu.be/ebIGlxKDT6k



Here, it's a car turning right from the left cross-street:



youtu.be/jr6R5dQa8hY

If you don't have a clear view to a potential cross-traffic threat, take a little extra time and launch more cautiously to ensure safe passage through the intersection.
A great technique for dealing with intersections is taught for emergency vehicle operators in relations to crossing an intersection against a red light. The same rings true for any vehicle on a green as well.

When entering an intersection, each lane must be cleared one by one as you proceed. Before you enter the path of the second lane for example, you should already have been able to visually clear it and make sure the traffic is fully stopped or nobody is there. If your vision is obstructed, you should proceed slowly enough so that you can clear the lane properly before proceeding. I do this every time I go through an intersection from a stop (and even do an abbreviated form when already travelling at speed).
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:55 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danate View Post
A great technique for dealing with intersections is taught for emergency vehicle operators in relations to crossing an intersection against a red light. The same rings true for any vehicle on a green as well.

When entering an intersection, each lane must be cleared one by one as you proceed. Before you enter the path of the second lane for example, you should already have been able to visually clear it and make sure the traffic is fully stopped or nobody is there. If your vision is obstructed, you should proceed slowly enough so that you can clear the lane properly before proceeding. I do this every time I go through an intersection from a stop (and even do an abbreviated form when already travelling at speed).


Excellent advice. Actively look for threats and don't proceed until you've confirmed that it's clear.
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Old 04-03-2015, 06:27 AM   #27
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Wow, some good info Dan. What I noticed on the over pass red light runner video was that the rider sat their for 10 seconds with out moving his head. Now MSF trains that your head needs to be turned when cornering and at inter sections they want to see your head turn left and right before proceeding. I'm a HUGH advocate of moving your head about as a rider. ALSO I've seen around 5 "close" calls where a group of riders (me included) pulled over and then a rider walks into the street and almost gets hit by a car. Again, the riders involved never looked before they walked. Mark
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Old 04-03-2015, 01:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DataDan View Post


In many crashes where view is obstructed, as Hurt said, "the culpability is clearly that of the automobile driver." But to survive as a motorcyclist you must accept full responsibility for your own survival, because it is you, not the Ford F-350 driver, whose life is on the line. By increasing your awareness of hidden hazards, you will be able to identify these situations as they develop and take action to protect yourself.

That's the bottom line, right there.

If a rider can't use the brain to assess safe space, in any surface condition and traffic situation... And know what they can do on the bike...

All the other possibilities, are possible.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:37 AM   #29
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In the OP of his thread Anticipation and Awareness - A Case Study, flying hun concludes: "The moral of the story is that any time you can't see what's on the other side of a vehicle, people on the other side can't see you, and are quite likely to assume that you're not there." Great advice.

Hun's description of the (non-)event is an excellent example of how to deal with an unseen potential hazard. This is his POV:

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How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:32 PM   #30
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Good stuff, Dan! A few minutes browsing this brings back to consciousness good habits earned through 50 survival years of riding. I think I'll ride a bit differently tomorrow!
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