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Old 02-26-2019, 12:02 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by mxrider89 View Post
so on the lightening your looking at a 200HP ~495lb
a suspension from a Daytona 675 , fully floating rotors, for 13k. says on a level 2 charger full charge in 120 min. i'm curious how long it would take on common use track day generator. not sure how the power/weight ratio works out on that but with advancements in batteries im sure that weight will come down in the future and if you can fit a full charge in 30 min that thing would be a reasonable toy. I agree with the previous statement though , there really should be a electric section on BARF. with out a doubt it IS the future of motorcycles.

Im not sure about other manufacturers but lightening using solar seems significant in their potential future success
You'll need a big generator to charge in half an hour.

The Lightning has 3 battery options: 12, 15, and 20kWh.

If efficiency is perfect and the battery can take it, charging a 12kWh battery in half an hour would require 24kW. Compare that to a typical trackday generator: a Honda EU2200i is rated at 1.8kW so you'd need more than a dozen of them.

Add in the realities of charging inefficiency and it's significantly worse.
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:20 PM   #47
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so on the lightening your looking at a 200HP ~495lb

Im not sure about other manufacturers but lightening using solar seems significant in their potential future success
What we need is a motorcycle jacket covered with flexible solar wafers. The jacket includes a USB connector so you back-charge the battery while you ride. The bike should also come with a rolled or fold-able solar collector that's kept in the storage compartment. If you run out of charge, just hang out in the sun for a couple hours during lunch.
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Old 02-26-2019, 01:40 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by berth View Post
110HP, but "only" 124MPH.

I guess it's governored to keep from draining the battery.
Not really. One of the beauties of EVs are that they work well without added complication of gearing, but one of the draw backs is compromises to top speed and acceleration. A electric motor has a wide range of operation, but there is a practical limit. You could always do a gearing change if the sprockets/belts are available.

Last edited by Killroy1999; 02-26-2019 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:14 PM   #49
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110HP, but "only" 124MPH.

I guess it's governored to keep from draining the battery.
Thermals, even the latest Zero is still stuck with air cooling for both battery and motor. Also limits how fast you can charge the battery. The Lightning platform doesn't have this issue, or at least it's less pronounced.
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Old 02-26-2019, 05:01 PM   #50
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Thermals, even the latest Zero is still stuck with air cooling for both battery and motor. Also limits how fast you can charge the battery. The Lightning platform doesn't have this issue, or at least it's less pronounced.
In all fairness my Hypermotard with 110HP did about 125mph tops. Just due to air resistance, power curves, gearing, etc. So their claim of 124 doesn't stand out as a bad thing.

Adding water cooling adds weight, cost, maintenance, etc.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:34 PM   #51
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What we need is a motorcycle jacket covered with flexible solar wafers. The jacket includes a USB connector so you back-charge the battery while you ride. The bike should also come with a rolled or fold-able solar collector that's kept in the storage compartment. If you run out of charge, just hang out in the sun for a couple hours during lunch.
Itís so crazy, it might just work .....
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:47 PM   #52
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There is really no need to aircool batteries they just don't get that hot during charging. There is a certain temp you want them at not too hot not too cold. The Empulse battery is aircooled, the one thing that does need coolingis the charging the fan isbso loud on the empulse when charging.

I haven't hit 120mph on my Empulse but I believe it was advertised it could =P. It has 6 speeds also, at the straight section of Laguna Seca I could only get it to 90mph even with tighter gearing.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:58 PM   #53
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Thermals, even the latest Zero is still stuck with air cooling for both battery and motor. Also limits how fast you can charge the battery. The Lightning platform doesn't have this issue, or at least it's less pronounced.
I wish Zero would do active thermal management, but it's hard to compare them $39,000- 49,000 lightning. Sure Lightning has a new concept coming out, but we know that they don't have any volume yet and they are still just a startup. Zero is struggling and they have been selling motorcycles for over 10 years.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:59 PM   #54
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If the track you're at has a L14-50P outlet you can use a common level 2 evse to charge the bike. Thats what I did when I did a trackday on the Empulse. If your generator can do 220volts you can level 2 charge it. I'm assuming that level 2 charger can do 6kwh that's pretty fast the Empulse take 4hours at 3kwh.

Man that's kinda weak the charge tank on the SR/F is still an accesory that should come standard =( that just hikes up the cost =( I guess you can just get the diginow supercharger and powertank then youÁve got some serious range and charging power!

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Originally Posted by mxrider89 View Post
so on the lightening your looking at a 200HP ~495lb
a suspension from a Daytona 675 , fully floating rotors, for 13k. says on a level 2 charger full charge in 120 min. i'm curious how long it would take on common use track day generator. not sure how the power/weight ratio works out on that but with advancements in batteries im sure that weight will come down in the future and if you can fit a full charge in 30 min that thing would be a reasonable toy. I agree with the previous statement though , there really should be a electric section on BARF. with out a doubt it IS the future of motorcycles.

Im not sure about other manufacturers but lightening using solar seems significant in their potential future success

Last edited by HadesOmega; 02-26-2019 at 07:07 PM..
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:11 PM   #55
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I’m not bothering with reading ALL the nitpicking, but that. New Zero is a decent looking bike...

$20 grand decent, not really sure, but decent nonetheless.

I like the color names, Boardwalk and Seabright.
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Old 02-27-2019, 10:52 AM   #56
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There is really no need to aircool batteries they just don't get that hot during charging. There is a certain temp you want them at not too hot not too cold. The Empulse battery is aircooled, the one thing that does need coolingis the charging the fan isbso loud on the empulse when charging.

I haven't hit 120mph on my Empulse but I believe it was advertised it could =P. It has 6 speeds also, at the straight section of Laguna Seca I could only get it to 90mph even with tighter gearing.
I'm not talking about air cooling, I'm talking about liquid cooling, for motor, battery and electronics. Thermal management via liquid cooling is one of the many things that make Tesla cars outperform other electric offerings.
You can already read it in the Zero's specs, 120 mph peak, 110 sustained, which means < 30s @ 120, < 5 mins @ 110 if that. Low voltage batteries like in the Zero require high amps, and air cooling only is not going to remove enough heat from the battery under high load.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:02 AM   #57
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I'm not talking about air cooling, I'm talking about liquid cooling, for motor, battery and electronics. Thermal management via liquid cooling is one of the many things that make Tesla cars outperform other electric offerings.
You can already read it in the Zero's specs, 120 mph peak, 110 sustained, which means < 30s @ 120, < 5 mins @ 110 if that. Low voltage batteries like in the Zero require high amps, and air cooling only is not going to remove enough heat from the battery under high load.
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Old 02-27-2019, 04:45 PM   #58
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Like I mention the battery doesn't really need cooling I gues if you L3 charge it all the time. Some electric motorcycle have active cooling the Empulse has a watercooled motor. The Energicas have oil cooled motors. The Lightning is also oil cooled. There is but Zero doesn't they are low performance =P. That is my chance to overtake them at the track when they go into thermal cutback =P.
I'm not sure if the controllers are watercooled maybe.

Gotta remember the battery on an electric bike get excellent cooling where it is when its moving anyway.


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Originally Posted by kolby View Post
I'm not talking about air cooling, I'm talking about liquid cooling, for motor, battery and electronics. Thermal management via liquid cooling is one of the many things that make Tesla cars outperform other electric offerings.
You can already read it in the Zero's specs, 120 mph peak, 110 sustained, which means < 30s @ 120, < 5 mins @ 110 if that. Low voltage batteries like in the Zero require high amps, and air cooling only is not going to remove enough heat from the battery under high load.

Last edited by HadesOmega; 02-27-2019 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:45 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by HadesOmega View Post
Like I mention the battery doesn't really need cooling I gues if you L3 charge it all the time. Some electric motorcycle have active cooling the Empulse has a watercooled motor. The Energicas have oil cooled motors. The Lightning is also oil cooled. There is but Zero doesn't they are low performance =P. That is my chance to overtake them at the track when they go into thermal cutback =P.
I'm not sure if the controllers are watercooled maybe.

Gotta remember the battery on an electric bike get excellent cooling where it is when its moving anyway.
Zero has don't optimization so that that neither the Battery, Motor or Controller nears it thermal limit before the other systems. I'n not a EV engineer, but Zero's won't charge at very low or very hight temperatures. In some cases people touring in the summer and using accessory fast chargers have had issues when Riding, charging, riding, charging.

In other words, active cooling would help. If you charger is not powerful or your motor is not powerful, it probably does not matter, but the more you push the performance, the more you need active cooling.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:07 PM   #60
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yeah, and that's dry weight...
How much do they weigh fully charged?


BTW I read recently about an e-bike with a 200 mile range, optional fast charging system. It was 500lbs, too.
But if a 500lb bike has it's weight down low and is well-balanced, not a deal breaker for me.
My R12R is 500-something but feels more like a 400lb-er. So it can be done.
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