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Old 07-07-2019, 06:02 PM   #1
bitcollector
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Crash at the bottom of 9 - near the water station

Hey barfers,

Here is a video of my 2nd crash in 25 years of riding. (it's a couple of years old now)
https://youtu.be/GG8MTndpvSg

Looking for any tips on what I did wrong or could have done better.

This happened at the end of a 3 hour ride through the Santa Cruz mountains and 2 weeks removed from the track. It was literally at the VERY end of a long ride and I was obviously riding too fast for the conditions having just been at the track recently and feeling a little too confident.

It looks like I entered the turn too fast, got scared of the guard rail rapidly approaching and stood the bike up trying to scrub speed and avoid the rail when I should have just leaned the bike over a bit more to try and make the curve.

I would have much preferred a lowside into that guardrail as opposed to hitting it the way I did and being thrown up over the front of the bike. I walked away from the accident but had to go to the emergency room as I was sure I had broken something. It turns out I just had a really nasty separation and now I have this funky looking shoulder bone that sticks up out of my skin

Also, on my way home from my last trip to skyline last week I noticed that same guardrail is completely destroyed now, looks like a car or truck took it out recently.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:15 PM   #2
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Your path of travel through the corners could have been much better. It didn't look like you were riding with a plan in mind.

You basically set yourself up to run wide in that turn, and it appeared that you resigned yourself to running wide / gave up.

Your speed may have been too much for skill level at the time, but it didn't appear to be too fast to make that turn.

Never stop looking through the turn, run better lines (late apex), don't give up trying to make the turn.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:34 PM   #3
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Race track lines and public road lines should be different. Enchanter already mentioned the late apex. When you use a late apex in a turn you should be able to tighten it up at any point, coming from the outside of the lane to the inside.

We also have quite a few BARF members encouraging trail braking, but if safety is the top priority, get all of the braking done before the turn begins, enter it from the outer edge of the road and bring the bike to the inside at the end of the turn (the late apex). You should be able to crack the throttle as soon as you get leaned into the turn if you've judged your entry speed correctly. If not, you can still brake while turning. Unless you're leaned over at knee dragging angles, you can brake while turning without having to stand the bike up. If you're leaned over 30 degrees, you still have approximately HALF of your traction available for the brakes without changing your lean angle. You definitely could have used the brakes without standing the bike up in your video. And you definitely could have just given it a bit more lean angle too.

Since it's been two years and apparently you're still riding, you must have already figured all of this out.
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Old 07-07-2019, 07:50 PM   #4
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Enchanter, appreciate the feedback on the late apex and I think that you are right about not riding with a plan......ride was literally over.....I think I let my guard down early.

Scott, you are correct about lean angle and trail braking, I'm just now starting to learn about these advanced techniques after a few trackday sessions and watching lots of MotoGP races.

Time to reread "Sport Riding Techniques", lots of good stuff in there that I obviously forgot about.

Thanks again for taking the time to watch the video and provide some feedback, I'm always looking to learn and improve.

Cheers!

Last edited by bitcollector; 07-07-2019 at 08:17 PM..
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:39 PM   #5
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Yeah you went in hotter than you thought and saw the guardrail and hit what you were looking at. If you had forced yourself to look into the turn you likely would have made it. When I get "that feeling, over my head" I snap my head to look where I need to go and instantly it all make sense again.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:12 PM   #6
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I would suggest that you consider changing the way you complete your corners.
The majority of your turns, if not all of them, you started in 1 "track" and crossed into the other track, usually mid corner.
When you cross over you run through the dirty middle where oils and debris collects.
Slow down and get in control. The speed will come.

Glad that your OK.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:29 PM   #7
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I would suggest that you consider changing the way you complete your corners.
The majority of your turns, if not all of them, you started in 1 "track" and crossed into the other track, usually mid corner.
I got this feedback, that I need to work on my lines, from one of the track day riders who was following me for a couple of laps last time I was out at Thunderhill so I think you are right about that as well.

Stock suspension on the Ninja 1000 is not the best but I'm not using that as an excuse, that said it's the next "upgrade" on my list.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:47 PM   #8
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I think the “unsettled” part began back at the end of the fairly long tar-snake. Then I don’t have a clue... it wasn’t the tightest turn in the last 500 yards and you just drove into the guardrail/stopped applying lean.

Hope it didn’t hurt too bad. Partzilla is our friend in these occasions; shouldn’t be too e$pensive.
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:14 AM   #9
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I got this feedback, that I need to work on my lines, from one of the track day riders who was following me for a couple of laps last time I was out at Thunderhill so I think you are right about that as well.
The line you were on didnít help, but it didnít make the crash unavoidable either. Prior to this series of turns, you were going quite fast. You had to slow considerably for this series and this can mess with your perception of speed if you arenít used to such big changes.

If you watch the video from turn entry to crash, youíll notice that in the first half of the turn you were holding steady throttle, the lean angle was moderate and the bike was running wide. About midway through, you rolled off the gas and picked up the lean angle. This is a strong indication that your attention was on the guard rail.

By rolling off and either maintaining your lean angle or increasing it a little, you could have stayed on the road and completed the turn. In order to do that, itís essential to get your attention back on where you want to go. Itís hard to tear your eyes away from something youíre afraid youíre going to hit, but something you must consciously do.
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:52 AM   #10
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Keep in mind too that this corner is a decreasing radius corner. It starts consistent then it gets sharp real quick. I frequent 9 on the weekends and can vouch that this is a late apex corner so prepping up by going wide at the beginning of the corner is best practice. Another good reason to late apex this very corner is due to charter buses and motor homes making their way up the hill. In order for the rear end of these machines to clear the mountain side, the left corner of the front bumper will protrude out over the double yellow and risks the chance of clipping an oncoming car or worse, one of us. stay wide and apex late.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:02 AM   #11
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It looks like I entered the turn too fast, got scared of the guard rail rapidly approaching and stood the bike up trying to scrub speed and avoid the rail when I should have just leaned the bike over a bit more to try and make the curve.
^ This.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:11 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Enchanter View Post
Your path of travel through the corners could have been much better. It didn't look like you were riding with a plan in mind.

You basically set yourself up to run wide in that turn, and it appeared that you resigned yourself to running wide / gave up.

Your speed may have been too much for skill level at the time, but it didn't appear to be too fast to make that turn.

Never stop looking through the turn, run better lines (late apex), don't give up trying to make the turn.
Yes, this. I was going to say the same thing only not as well.

And you are adding throttle at full lean a couple of times, not the best practice.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:22 AM   #13
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I think most of what needs to be said was said already. Remember to choose a turn point that is where the turn actually starts. You consistently begin your turn early, which brings you up along the line or shoulder too soon, leading you to go wide on your path out of the turn. That along with the decreasing radius turn set off your fear response and target fixation did the rest. In those few moments when you were headed for the guard rail, there was still time to turn your head, give a strong steering input and get back on the throttle (just a little) to sharpen your turn and still make it.

When I first took riding classes, I was always taught that when I felt like I was going wide to "look more, push more" and never roll off the throttle completely. I've gone into that turn too fast as well, but by turning my head and leaning the bike more, it just left me with a scraped peg and the knowledge that I biffed my entry speed.

The best solution is to use better judgement and set a lower entry speed, especially on the road when the conditions can be ever-changing.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:01 AM   #14
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Sounds like you clutched in as well, no power to the wheel
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Old 07-23-2019, 05:54 PM   #15
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The line you were on didnít help, but it didnít make the crash unavoidable either. Prior to this series of turns, you were going quite fast. You had to slow considerably for this series and this can mess with your perception of speed if you arenít used to such big changes.

If you watch the video from turn entry to crash, youíll notice that in the first half of the turn you were holding steady throttle, the lean angle was moderate and the bike was running wide. About midway through, you rolled off the gas and picked up the lean angle. This is a strong indication that your attention was on the guard rail.

By rolling off and either maintaining your lean angle or increasing it a little, you could have stayed on the road and completed the turn. In order to do that, itís essential to get your attention back on where you want to go. Itís hard to tear your eyes away from something youíre afraid youíre going to hit, but something you must consciously do.
Some really solid advice here, I really appreciate the time to respond and help make me a better rider. After the accident happened I had a hard time figuring out what happened, even with the video. It's awesome to have a community of experienced riders to help me break it all down
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