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Old 04-24-2020, 12:36 PM   #1
baldjeff
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befuddling low speed low side

hey barf fam, im not sure why i went down here. i'd love your perspective. thanks for your feedback. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ACK...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 04-24-2020, 12:37 PM   #2
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Looked like some slippery stuff on the asphalt.
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Old 04-24-2020, 12:48 PM   #3
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I'd blame whatever that dark spot and light spot are, it looks to me like there may have been a fluid spill of some kind and drying stuff used to clean it up recently, and it's still slick. Looked like your front tire wiped first but they both went at the same spot.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:46 PM   #4
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The surface does look like there is something on it, but on top of that you were still on the gas while steering. This will provoke a slide in situations where there was otherwise enough traction.

The correct action would be to roll off, steer, then begin the roll-on again. Even if that spot were slick, you should be through it before the bike falls down unless the back tire is spun up on the gas. The rear of your bike did swing out as if it slid more than the front, which is consistent with being on the gas a little too much.
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Old 04-25-2020, 12:25 PM   #5
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Looks like dirty road surface. Where was that?
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Old 04-25-2020, 04:16 PM   #6
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Looks like dirty road surface. Where was that?
Its in Vegas
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Old 04-28-2020, 06:56 AM   #7
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My guess would be diesel fuel. Hard to get any more slippery than that.

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Old 04-28-2020, 08:34 AM   #8
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That road looks slick as hell.
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Old 04-28-2020, 11:50 AM   #9
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I am very glad that you're ok. There are no other vehicles, objects or animals involved. Don't blame the bike, don't blame the road and don't blame the weather.

Last edited by Hank Wong; 04-28-2020 at 11:55 AM..
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:24 PM   #10
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I have anecdote of two similar incidents. One to me, one I observed.

The first was in Phoenix. In July. I was making a turn lane left turn and almost lost the front. It was a slow turn, from a stop, but my front Moved. I didn't see anything, but honestly I suspected the road surface had an issue with the heat. Tar, oil, something.

The second did not happen to me, I simply saw it happen.

Random intersection, just starting from the light, and a bike came in to the intersection, going straight, and simply dropped like a stone. Completely lost the front and was done.

I again didn't see anything obviously, it was like the bike was just yanked out from underneath this guy. One of the scariest things I ever saw.

That sorta happened to me once, but I was making a left and it was pretty clear I lost the back end on that one. Bike slid out of underneath me. I zigged, it zagged.

But this guy wasn't turning. So, mysterious.
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Old 04-30-2020, 09:48 PM   #11
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Looked like sand on top of something slick.

Yeah, those getoffs suck.
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Old 05-01-2020, 06:45 AM   #12
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If there is antifreeze on the ground it is very hard to see and super slippery

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Old 05-01-2020, 07:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berth View Post
I have anecdote of two similar incidents. One to me, one I observed.

The first was in Phoenix. In July. I was making a turn lane left turn and almost lost the front. It was a slow turn, from a stop, but my front Moved. I didn't see anything, but honestly I suspected the road surface had an issue with the heat. Tar, oil, something.

The second did not happen to me, I simply saw it happen.

Random intersection, just starting from the light, and a bike came in to the intersection, going straight, and simply dropped like a stone. Completely lost the front and was done.

I again didn't see anything obviously, it was like the bike was just yanked out from underneath this guy. One of the scariest things I ever saw.

That sorta happened to me once, but I was making a left and it was pretty clear I lost the back end on that one. Bike slid out of underneath me. I zigged, it zagged.

But this guy wasn't turning. So, mysterious.
I had something similar happen to me a few years ago. Stopping at a "T" intersection, I pulled out to turn left, lightly accelerating as I straightened up. About 1/3 into the turn, my rear kicked out like I was on an ice skating rink. I shut the throttle, slammed my left foot down and went into maximum survival mode (I was on a Kawasaki Concours, so tall and heavy). In the first micro-second I lost traction I was certain I was going to low side. A couple of wobbles later and I miraculously got it straightened up.

I pulled over and went back to look. Nothing to see at all. I did feel the road being a little slick when I walked on it and smelled diesel fuel. This road is used by heavy logging trucks and other semis and I concluded that likely there was a diesel spill by one of the trucks. The amazing thing is it was invisible.

My Dad had a similar experience many years ago while riding to work. Getting on the freeway on a cloverleaf, down he went. Invisible, slippery, smelled of diesel fuel. I remember it like it was yesterday, I was sitting at the kitchen table eating breakfast and here comes my Dad riding up the driveway, handlebars pranged and nylon jacket tore up (he was on his Honda 305 Dream). No injuries to speak of except for a little skinned up here and there.

Dan

Last edited by bergmen; 05-01-2020 at 07:08 AM..
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:43 AM   #14
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Question for the OP: Did you examine the surface near where you fell? Was anything off about it in the way people are suggesting?

The control input I commented on earlier would exacerbate a situation where traction was compromised. Rolling on the gas while adding lean angle will cause a slide at lean angles and cornering forces below what the conditions will really support.
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
My guess would be diesel fuel. Hard to get any more slippery than that.

Dan
I've had two high-speed crashes on slippery stuff. One was at night in the rain on I-5 just south of Portland, OR. A semi dropped a stream of diesel in the right lane as he merged from a truck-stop on-ramp. I smelled diesel, then I was down and sliding in the dark, I watched my Concours exit stage right 300ft later and blast right over the top of the guard rail. It seemed like it never lost any speed at all. As for me, I don't think I've ever hopped up and run for the shoulder so fast since. Hopped up that is, once I could get my feet under me. It was like a bad cartoon with me in the role of the Keystone Cops.
Legs churning away as I slipped and crashed multiple times on my ass or face - all while enjoying the view of oncoming semi trucks as they dodged my bulging eyed meat-sack self. No bones broken, just a motorcycle that was a foot shorter and a lot of deep bruises all over my body.

The other was in a slurry of diesel (again!) combined with sand and water running off of a construction site. This was less than 1/2 block from the TV station I was working at, after they failed to secure the hose filling their water truck. I smelled diesel and WHAM! down hard. That one broke 3 fingers and my thumb along with my left ankle. Busted the windscreen off the bike with my chin too. Rode it home after working my shift.

What lesson did I learn? Pay attention to the road surface, if you smell diesel go to full alert mode.
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