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Old 06-19-2020, 11:33 AM   #1
horsepower
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TROUBLESHOOT:KTM 690 Duke Helll(p)!!!

Ok I need some true mechanical sleuths here :

The bike:
2010 KTM 690 Duke
10,000 miles

The mods:
Leo Vince exhaust
PC5

The history:
Purchased here on BARF from an unknown seller

The problem :
Bike dies at or falls below idle and stalls. Restarts almost every time
Problem is intermittent. At higher speeds seems to be ok

The tries for a solution :
Took to my mechanic and he tried to remap but there are limited maps for this year. He suggested a Dyno tune. KTM advised same. 2 mechanics have now tested the bike and suggest Dyno.


Dyno tuner just called me. He halted the Dyno believing that the problem cannot be fixed by Dyno.
He said this:
On Dyno at each consistent RPM as trial, “ the bike would run lean one minute then rich the next. “
He checked the PC5 mapping and it was adjusted as well as possible. He also said the bike runs rougher and clicks much louder than normal for a KTM.
He suggested:
1) Check valve clearance
2) check piston for wear/ damage
3)Do a leak down test on piston ring to check if valves are sealing.
4) Check for a vacuum leak on the intake of the throttle body.
5)maybe the whole fuel injection system needs replacing or even just a simple fuel filter.

After relaying this back to my mechanic , he rejected most of those suggestions above due to the fact that most would show consistencies at all speeds wherein this is intermittent and only at coming to idle as in a full stop or a u turn. He suggested these :
1) check valve clearances to eliminate a tight sticky valve issue
2) potential sensor issue: but what do we do , replace an oxygen sensor , ride it , hope it works and or continue down the rabbit hole ? Or
3) Locate a stock pipe and get rid of PC 5: (but would this normal solve even work knowing now that it’s NOT a Dyno tune issue or a remap issue? Explain as to a child ).

Help me figure this out! , please advise as to your thoughts or theories here. My goal is to pinpoint and fix the issue and then sell it or trade for an inline 4 bike I know better. But I have to fix this issue first as it’s not my style to sell anything without knowing everything I can about it for the next guy /gal. It’s been 3 months and I have put exactly 8 miles on the bike. It is frustrating with this issue. PS, Not stopping is not an option.
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Last edited by horsepower; 06-19-2020 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 06-19-2020, 12:12 PM   #2
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Simplest thing to try is to disconnect the PC5. See how it runs on the stock ECU. I doubt it will be lean enough to do damage.

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Old 06-19-2020, 12:37 PM   #3
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has it behaved this way since you've had it, or recent development?

valve check and otherwise full tune up should be first steps IMO. fresh gas, check grounds, all wiring connections/plugs are seated. chasing your tail if you don't have a good baseline
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Old 06-19-2020, 12:38 PM   #4
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I had a 2016 690 and I had installed the Leo Vince exhaust with the decat. Exhaust originally came with a little washer with 3 little circles (whatever that thing is called) and I decided to install it without it... in Texas it ran fine bit when I moved to the Bay I started noticing the same issue you're describing.

Did a bunch of troubleshooting without any luck until I remembered about that washer part. Put it back on and problem solved. It literally goes at the beginning of the can where it connects to the pipe.
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Old 06-19-2020, 02:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fufo47 View Post
I had a 2016 690 and I had installed the Leo Vince exhaust with the decat. Exhaust originally came with a little washer with 3 little circles (whatever that thing is called) and I decided to install it without it... in Texas it ran fine bit when I moved to the Bay I started noticing the same issue you're describing.

Did a bunch of troubleshooting without any luck until I remembered about that washer part. Put it back on and problem solved. It literally goes at the beginning of the can where it connects to the pipe.
Man if you are right that’s the God send I was looking for !!
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Old 06-19-2020, 02:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Maddevill View Post
Simplest thing to try is to disconnect the PC5. See how it runs on the stock ECU. I doubt it will be lean enough to do damage.

Mad
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Old 06-19-2020, 02:33 PM   #7
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If its intermittent I would think an electrical (sensor) or fuel delivery problem. Although putting this washer in costs almost nothing, so worth a try. Coming down Mt Hamilton today my BMW misfired a few times, CalMoto mentioned this is by design in order to meet CARB regulations. So problems are not always clear cut, unfortunately.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:06 PM   #8
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Hey Dani!

I started having a fueling issue with my 690 enduro this year after it was sitting. Wouldn't hold an idle, cut out at mid/full throttle. I got hold of the ex Fator's mechanic who know's his stuff and he suggested the fuel system. He's went independent now and is going to replace the rocker arms and do a valve adjustment for me in the next few weeks and also fix my issue if I can't. He's up near Anderson if you want his number. I've yet to find a good KTM mechanic local to me.

I've swapped injectors and it got a little better but not fixed yet.
These bikes (enduro's at least) have issues with the fuel pumps, and in tank fuel filters. I've already replaced one in the last 7,000 miles and I've got another one on the way and will replace it Monday. We have shitty gas in Cal that degrades fuel systems.
I've also got tune ecu, and the bike is throwing no codes, has your bike thrown a code? The fi light will flash if it has...

Matt
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Old 06-19-2020, 04:39 PM   #9
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Name: Daniela
Thanks for all the great feedback so far.
Haven’t owned it long but the troubles obviously came with it.
No codes thrown thus far even on the Dyno.
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:04 PM   #10
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Since it's intermittent, as someone else mentioned, I'd have your mechanic look at the electrical wiring to the various sensors. Sometimes it can be something as little as a single pin in a wiring harness connector that has backed out of the connector. Or, often a wiring harness can get worn through at some odd location against a frame bracket or other sharp-ish area causing an intermittent short. Have him start the bike and wiggle various sections of the wiring harness to see if you can make it consistently do something wierd. If not, have him check resistance values for your CPS (Crank positon sensor) and other sensors. Has he checked all the connections to the fuel pump and fuel pump relay to eliminate that being a problem? I just replaced a fuel pump relay on an older bike where the owner had replaced the entire fuel pump and it still wouldn't start. I checked all the connections and they were fine. I checked the relay and it had green crusties (corrosion of copper wire) all up in it. popped in a good used relay I had and it fired right up. Good luck.
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Last edited by Darkness!; 06-19-2020 at 07:04 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by oobus View Post
Hey Dani!

I started having a fueling issue with my 690 enduro this year after it was sitting. Wouldn't hold an idle, cut out at mid/full throttle. I got hold of the ex Fator's mechanic who know's his stuff and he suggested the fuel system. He's went independent now and is going to replace the rocker arms and do a valve adjustment for me in the next few weeks and also fix my issue if I can't. He's up near Anderson if you want his number. I've yet to find a good KTM mechanic local to me.

I've swapped injectors and it got a little better but not fixed yet.
These bikes (enduro's at least) have issues with the fuel pumps, and in tank fuel filters. I've already replaced one in the last 7,000 miles and I've got another one on the way and will replace it Monday. We have shitty gas in Cal that degrades fuel systems.
I've also got tune ecu, and the bike is throwing no codes, has your bike thrown a code? The fi light will flash if it has...

Matt
CA fuel is some of the cleanest burning and leaves fewer deposits when compared to the rest of the countries supply. The issue is with KTM, not CA fuel.
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyApex View Post
CA fuel is some of the cleanest burning and leaves fewer deposits when compared to the rest of the countries supply. The issue is with KTM, not CA fuel.
Guess I wasn't all that clear. I agree, it is clean burning and has less issues leaving deposits after burn, but it is hard on the fuel system, particularly when sitting. Really hard on carburetors.
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:40 PM   #13
horsepower
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Originally Posted by oobus View Post
Hey Dani!
and do a valve adjustment for me in the next few weeks and also fix my issue if I can't. He's up near Anderson if you want his number. I've yet to find a good KTM mechanic local to me.



Matt
Thanks, Matt! I’ll take you up on that number for sure!
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:48 PM   #14
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It is very possible that this bike sat idle for quite some time. I just added gas instead of purging the system.
Would “bad gas “( even water in it ?) cause the Dyno readings to waiver from rich one minute to lean the next and potentially also account for the off the throttle stall out ? Or would it just run rough? It apparently ran strong on the Dyno in general ie at high rpms as I understand. It also runs and accelerated well on the street save for “the problem”.
Bike is Fuel Injected of course.
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Last edited by horsepower; 06-19-2020 at 07:58 PM..
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Old 06-19-2020, 08:16 PM   #15
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Dani, do I need to come give your KTM an Italian tune up?

I am very sorry this bike hasn't been all the joy you wanted it to be. I feel bad because I gave it my seal of approval after the test ride.
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