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Old 06-23-2020, 11:49 AM   #31
Hank Wong
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My money is on the lack of valve adjustment, i.e. one of the exhaust valves is too tight.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:54 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Hank Wong View Post
My money is on the lack of valve adjustment, i.e. one of the exhaust valves is too tight.
*me*

Intermittent=fuel or electrical not mechanical.

I like the PC removal as step 1. Fast easy and free.
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Old 06-23-2020, 08:30 PM   #33
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My money is on the lack of valve adjustment, i.e. one of the exhaust valves is too tight.
That was also my mechanics guess so letís see if you are right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisweir.com View Post
*me*

Intermittent=fuel or electrical not mechanical.

I like the PC removal as step 1. Fast easy and free.
Is there any consequence to doing this ? Ie. Could it potentially make it worse or throw off the timing elsewhere ?
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Old 06-24-2020, 09:04 AM   #34
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[QUOTE=horsepower;10596769]That was also my mechanics guess so letís see if you are right.

Is there any reason that you are not listening to the professional diagnosis rather than soliciting wild ass guesses from the peanut gallery?
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Old 06-25-2020, 07:54 AM   #35
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Dani i don't want to discourage you but,... you mentioned Praying. these machines speak German. you should learn to swear at them in their native tongue, because they'll just ignore you if you don't.
Austrian That is a different German accent.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:32 PM   #36
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drain the fuel..... start over. drain the tank.
New fresh gas.
Lots of good info here , unfortunately all time consuming to find the culprit-s
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Old 06-25-2020, 07:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisweir.com View Post
*me*

Intermittent=fuel or electrical not mechanical.

I like the PC removal as step 1. Fast easy and free.
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Originally Posted by horsepower View Post
Is there any consequence to doing this ? Ie. Could it potentially make it worse or throw off the timing elsewhere ?
No, PC sits in between your ECU and injectors/coils and modifies the signal. Your bike is running like crap because the injector and ignition signals are changed from stock settings that worked great from factory. By removing the PC, you are removing device that's messing up good signals from your ECU to injectors & coils. You are fixing the problem by removing the item that's messing with factory programming.

Be sure to really, really repair how PC was tapped in to get power and ground. A lot of people do hack job with wire-twisting and electrical tape or crimp connectors. Be sure to repair by tying and soldering any cut wires done during installation and cover with shrink-wrap to avoid shorts.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 06-25-2020 at 09:42 PM..
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Old 06-26-2020, 04:19 PM   #38
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[QUOTE=Hank Wong;10596939]
Quote:
Originally Posted by horsepower View Post
That was also my mechanics guess so let’s see if you are right.

Is there any reason that you are not listening to the professional diagnosis rather than soliciting wild ass guesses from the peanut gallery?
No, Hank. The problem is that even the “professionals “ weren’t sure about what step to take and the initial remove the PC pos and return to stock pipe wasn’t possible due to no stock pipe being available. Not even my very talented professional mechanic was 100% sure of what move to make first without the Dyno diagnostic coming back the way it did .
I have found that when one throws an issue out to the Barf, one often scores a home run. Sure some are bloopers but most of this is gold considering that the internet is fragmented with glimpses of all of this. At least someone in the future can benefit as well , get it all laid out in one place.
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Last edited by horsepower; 06-26-2020 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 06-26-2020, 08:55 PM   #39
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was there any progress made yet?
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Old 06-26-2020, 11:26 PM   #40
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What happens when you put on aftermarket performance exhaust is you typically get an increase in total flow... at high-RPMs and WOT only. In mid-range RPMs and partial-throttle, you actually end up with less flow than stock.

So... there's no harm in removing PC and running stock ECU mapping. Even with aftermarket exhaust. Just don't use WOT and don't go above 75% of redline. This avoids possible lean mixtures in areas that would typically require more fuel than stock. You'll end up richer than stock (safer), in partial-throttle mid-range.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 06-27-2020 at 09:39 AM..
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:09 AM   #41
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Austrian That is a different German accent.
Texans still understand if you swear at them in californian
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Old 06-27-2020, 02:06 PM   #42
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Folks should start at the beginning of the system on diagnosis.

For electrical, have they checked the battery voltage with the bike off, running, and battery terminals?
For fuel, have they checked the fuel pressure, which will allow you to eliminate fuel pump / fuel filter as a problem?
For air, have they checked that there's nothing in the intake and that the filters are in good shape?

All of those things should be relatively quick and free in terms of parts. If you've got good fuel pressure you can start looking at the injectors or things downstream of the fuel system. If your electrical system is sound, you can start looking at the PCV. If the intake is clear, start looking at things like valves. Troubleshooting should work from the outside of the motorcycle in, so as they pull each part they should be checking the sensors and connectors that they gain access to.

It's also a 690, so depending on model and generation, throttle reset and other 690 specific things should be taken into account. The older gen 690s had very finicky remap sequences, varied by year and ECU configuration (example: https://sites.google.com/site/690wik.../tjuvstopp-etc )

Stalling at idle is also a sign of tight valves, so if the other stuff checks out, that' d be where I'd go next, especially if there's no maintenance history. You can check most of the stuff above on the way in to the top end, so may as well do it to see. The older 690 models would tighten up valves somewhat and without maintenance history, it's possible they're just hell for tight and hanging open when hot. This can appear intermittently because depending on how the ECU has adapted, temperature, heat soak, and previous throttle usage can make push the bike from "rough running" to "stalls". A massive change in RPM (ie, pulling the clutch in and slamming the throttle shut) is much more like likely to stall the bike as it has to overcome the change in RPM vs it running at 1200rpm and then you pull the clutch in and there's very little change in load that the idle fueling needs to compensate for.

I'd also check that you can't induce it by turning the bars side to side aggressively. An intermittent short in the wiring harness can cause the behaviors you're describing as the bike cuts out.

Quote:
On Dyno at each consistent RPM as trial, “ the bike would run lean one minute then rich the next. “
He checked the PC5 mapping and it was adjusted as well as possible. He also said the bike runs rougher and clicks much louder than normal for a KTM.
This throws up major red flags - the PC5 is supposed to help you maintain an appropriate A/F ratio at a given load / throttle position, so by what criteria is adjusted properly if the A/F ratio is fluctuating?

A flakey fuel pump will also often show up at lower RPM where a small reduction in effectiveness means significantly less fuel going into the intake.

Last edited by Z3n; 06-27-2020 at 02:12 PM..
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Old 06-27-2020, 09:34 PM   #43
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All super good stuff. And thanks Conan for making it easy for me to understand the whys and what fors on this 2010 model.
So the bike is at the shop under instructions to do a general tune up and drain the tank , check filters , wiring etc
I plan on test riding it as soon as they are done. Iíll do the bars aggressively to check on above.
If it is still there then I think maybe the next step is the sticky valve check and removing PC will be next.
Will update Monday afternoon with the first step findings.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:26 AM   #44
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Dani, I bit the bullet and bought a new fuel pump, filter and hoses for my 690, and did a bit of "pick simple first" things to address my problem.
And the damn thing runs better than it ever has!
Not sure about your bike but it may be the same:

www.highflowfuel.com is where I got the parts.

After draining the fuel tank it was about a 2 hour job to replace. 2nd time I've replaced the fuel pump in 12,000 miles.

I've got a new battery(full charge) and air filter on my bike which takes out those variables.

Don't forget I have a 690 enduro r, so your bike may be a bit different. I'd do the below steps and see if it helps, it did on my bike.

TPS reset and throttle learning(and my bike is not fly by wire)
For tps reset, simply turn on the bike (do not start), when the tach drops back to 0, slowly open the throttle all the way and slowly bring it back to 0. Turn off the bike.
For throttle learning, with a completely cold engine, start the bike, let it idle for 15 minutes (no less), then shut it off.

I'd try these two things first and see if you notice any difference.

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Last edited by oobus; 06-29-2020 at 07:28 AM..
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:02 AM   #45
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Is this a normal duke, the SM or SMC. I might have insight for you here.

EDIT: Z3n beat me to it. But I might have a low mile flow-tested injector for you if you think it might help you.
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