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Old 09-21-2020, 07:54 AM   #16
berth
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We I don't know what the relationship between Zero and the group were outside of the test rides, but at a minimum Zero didn't get noted on film as having refused them (like KTM did).

Maybe H-D was willing to put more sponsorship in to the project (beyond just bikes). I'm sure when the project was considered, or even announced, that HD was the farthest from people minds as to being the primary provider for the riders.

And it's still a testament to both companies willing to subject their products to a 13K mile beta test on camera, even friendly cameras like these.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:04 AM   #17
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Well, considering all the charging troubles they've been having in the first few episodes, this 13k mile beta test isn't making Harley look too good lol.
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:07 AM   #18
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Well, considering all the charging troubles they've been having in the first few episodes, this 13k mile beta test isn't making Harley look too good lol.
I think these are edge cases in terms of charging. You have so much working against these bikes.

The Harley LiveWire was never meant to be a road trip bike. If it is used as a long haul motorcycle, you need have access to DCFC unless you want to wait about 10 hours between rides. DCFC isn't even really built out in the US to any large scale, let alone in Patagonia of all places lol.

The overnight temps appear to be below 0. Most LiveWires will never even come close to those conditions. Even if they were, a $30k (before tax/license) bike is most likely going to be garaged.

Maybe I'm wrong, but seems like most motorcyclists stay out of the freezing temps/stay home except for the "only transportation" crew.
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:26 AM   #19
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The Rivians? The two they have are the very first "production" Rivians. They are basically production prototypes. Not sure what you want from them lol. They have a general idea but the extreme environment + new technology + unproven platform..
They don't look very "production" but either way, haven't these things been in development for over 5 years now? They never drove them in the cold before? Their range comes as a surprise?



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Yeah, the LiveWires don't have active thermal management to my knowledge. So extreme cold makes charging/range not great. I'm not sure if Energicas or Zeros would do much better.
How is it possible they did not know this? Does it not get cold in Miluawakee?

I guess it's nice that they can stay in a luxury hotel while charging them


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I think Harley actually "approached" them tbh.
I wonder if Harley is bankrolling part of this. They even flew an engineer/rep out to Argentina to help with the bikes.

They aren't doing EVs any favors though. Both the bikes and cars appear to be crap for a long distance trip. Wrong tools for the job. Doesn't help that you have that guy who's whining and complaining the entire time too.
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:29 AM   #20
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:38 AM   #21
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I too am very curious why they didn't go with Zero. You'd think in trying to show the capabilities of an electric bike you'd go with something that's been in production at least for a little while and that already has models to choose from. I'd be willing to bet Zero could have customized a DSR with more battery power to help make the journey.

Instead they chose prototype Harleys that admittedly had never been ridden before by consumers. My guess is $$ was the motivation. I'm curious to see how at all pans out.
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:42 AM   #22
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I think these are edge cases in terms of charging. You have so much working against these bikes.

The Harley LiveWire was never meant to be a road trip bike. If it is used as a long haul motorcycle, you need have access to DCFC unless you want to wait about 10 hours between rides. DCFC isn't even really built out in the US to any large scale, let alone in Patagonia of all places lol.

The overnight temps appear to be below 0. Most LiveWires will never even come close to those conditions. Even if they were, a $30k (before tax/license) bike is most likely going to be garaged.

Maybe I'm wrong, but seems like most motorcyclists stay out of the freezing temps/stay home except for the "only transportation" crew.
While this is all true, I feel like if Harley was planning on going all in with this trip, they should've at least tried to address some of these issues during the planning stages of the trip. The cold weather in that region at that time of year + lack of charging infrastructure should be fairly obvious factors to consider IMO.

Or maybe they just gave them two slightly shitty bikes so that we can all have some nice, entertaining TV.
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Old 09-21-2020, 12:55 PM   #23
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Instead they chose prototype Harleys that admittedly had never been ridden before by consumers. My guess is $$ was the motivation. I'm curious to see how at all pans out.
As I've always said, "Adventure" is a bad trip remembered fondly.

The thing about this round is simply that everyone participating (from the riders to the sponsors) knew what they were getting themselves in to.

Unlike LWR, where the riders and team were untested, this is a seasoned team (if, perhaps maybe a little out of shape due to age and what not).

This trip does not seem to be as desolate as some elements of LWR, especially as they had farther north, so in that sense it's less risky than LWR.

HD and Rivian went in to this eyes open. Why Zero chose to not participate, who knows. Maybe they didn't have the capital or manpower to invest in this operation. Rivian poured a boatload of money in to this, HD is pouring money and reputation in this. Both hope to get a lot of good will out of it in the end.

When it started, the things Rivian was promising were little more than clay and computer models.

The riders want to succeed. I have only seen the first episode, but they'll simply deal and cope as things go on. In the end, this is a "journey is the reward" however far they make it, and simply, hopefully, nobody gets hurt.

At least power is their primary problem and they don't need to be escorted by folks with AK-47s. Not yet, at least.

Everything in perspective.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:56 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by berth View Post
We I don't know what the relationship between Zero and the group were outside of the test rides, but at a minimum Zero didn't get noted on film as having refused them (like KTM did).

Maybe H-D was willing to put more sponsorship in to the project (beyond just bikes). I'm sure when the project was considered, or even announced, that HD was the farthest from people minds as to being the primary provider for the riders.

And it's still a testament to both companies willing to subject their products to a 13K mile beta test on camera, even friendly cameras like these.
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Originally Posted by mrzuzzo View Post
I wonder if Harley is bankrolling part of this. They even flew an engineer/rep out to Argentina to help with the bikes.

They aren't doing EVs any favors though. Both the bikes and cars appear to be crap for a long distance trip. Wrong tools for the job. Doesn't help that you have that guy who's whining and complaining the entire time too.

I'd guess that H-D bankrolled it with more cash / spare bikes / factory support than Zero could probably come up with. I'd guess Zero probably offered free bikes (why wouldn't you???) and maybe some cash but H-D can throw serious marketing money at something like this and they've been grabbing at everything to jumpstart their brand for the younger generation, so it makes sense.

Shame because IMHO Zero deserves the exposure and has been a great electric bike company for a while now, H-D is throwing money at a segment for brand CPR.. I'll probably still watch it, but the whining (as we saw in long way down) is already making me not want to watch...
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:48 PM   #25
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Shame because IMHO Zero deserves the exposure and has been a great electric bike company for a while now, H-D is throwing money at a segment for brand CPR.. I'll probably still watch it, but the whining (as we saw in long way down) is already making me not want to watch...
It's interesting that Revian had the deep pockets to fund this kind of thing, but Zero doesn't. Seems to me Revian is spending more on this than HD.

Early on HD I think quoted the 100 mile mark for range, and that alone could certainly be a qualifier for them if for whatever reason Zero wasn't able to match that.

But it's all quite fair that the LWU team wasn't about to air any details of dirty laundry about these negotiations. No doubt they approached other people we may never know of that turned them down for one thing or another.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:53 PM   #26
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It's interesting that Revian had the deep pockets to fund this kind of thing, but Zero doesn't. Seems to me Revian is spending more on this than HD.

Early on HD I think quoted the 100 mile mark for range, and that alone could certainly be a qualifier for them if for whatever reason Zero wasn't able to match that.

But it's all quite fair that the LWU team wasn't about to air any details of dirty laundry about these negotiations. No doubt they approached other people we may never know of that turned them down for one thing or another.
I don't know how it was when Rivian bought into this, but they have received a fuckton of funding from the likes of Amazon and T Rowe Price. Perhaps they knew they would have oodles of cash. That's one benefit of Rivian and Harley over Zero motorcycles: both have a new product they are wanting to promote the crap out of.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:09 PM   #27
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An interview with Boorman...
https://advrider.com/baldy-interview...t-long-way-up/
ETA: "We looked at Zero, but that really didn't work"... there's some backstory there that they're not going to talk about!
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Old 09-24-2020, 09:34 AM   #28
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Heh I've run into the COLD charging problems they went through, in the Sierras. Was trying to charge my Light Bee battery at night and it was like 40F and the BMS wouldn't allow me to charge the battery so I had to put my battery infront of the heater vent on my van and wrap a blanket around it, then it finally charged.
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Old 09-24-2020, 11:52 AM   #29
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Finally finished the first 3 episodes, new one on Friday. Sounds like there's at least 10, but perhaps 12 total.

So far, so good. I like it a lot better than LWD.

Clearly they're fighting the new tech, dealing with (well founded) range anxiety. But it's still be a great show, with beautiful photography. The bike drama is just different than it was in LWR. LWR was as much border crossing drama as anything else, at least until they got to Mongolia (and then they just skipped pretty much the entirety of the US).

So, can hardly wait for the next episodes. Really like Ewan and Charley's humor and chit chats.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:29 AM   #30
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Ep 4: at the risk of posting a mild spoiler, Rivian gets a black eye.
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