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Old 06-25-2016, 08:56 AM   #16
FXCLM5
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Originally Posted by Maize and Blue View Post
For the gsxr's with the Woolich kit we have been able to turn off the injectors for one cylinder. So, yes, you can just flash the ecu to make a triple. For racing with AFM, they require some sort of physical change to be made that requires tool to switch back and forth.

The simple solution is to get 2 extra injectors (one for upper, one for lower) with the loop of tubing, pick a cylinder, then unplug the connector from the injectors in the fuel rail and plug into the looped injectors. Done.
For optimal performance in 600 and 450 modes you'll want a custom map, too.
thank you for clarifying, ive been asking since last year since I met a guy @ a trackday saying the development of the ecu flash - is here and is currently being used (600-450 ecu flash)

then i asked dave moss about it and he was not familiar with that method, now i see what the issue is at hand!
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:23 PM   #17
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found this thread looking for something else.
There seems to be a mistake in that running as a 450 with ONLY the injectors bypassed is AFM legal; it is not. You still have to have a mechanical disablement to the engine.
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quote:Originally posted by MLohmeyer

Ya, those brake pads get pretty expensive. That's part of what I meant about racing vs. just doing track days. Why waste a perfectly good brake pad if you aren't trying to win a trophy.


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Old 02-21-2017, 12:05 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by duh_ave View Post
found this thread looking for something else.
There seems to be a mistake in that running as a 450 with ONLY the injectors bypassed is AFM legal; it is not. You still have to have a mechanical disablement to the engine.
How else could that be accomplished without pulling the head to grind cams or remove valves?
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:28 AM   #19
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I think the rule book just states that some physical modification must be made, and then they list the injector bypass as an example of that. I figured that the phrase physical modification was meant to stop the purely electrical methods mentioned above, not meaning something mechanical has to be done internally.
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:55 AM   #20
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The listing of injectors in the parenthesis was, as I understand it, meant to institute an allowance for an electronic only conversion. However, it seems tech was not consulted and has held, the entire time, that a mechanic disablement was required.
There are only three methods that I am aware of that satisfy this, and only two are specifically approved.
One way, the original way, is to remove valves.
The second way, is to grind off cam lobes.
The third way, which I had permission to do experimentally, was to remove a spark plug and to put a solid plug into the hole. (All require disconnection of fuel). I would get permission from tech before trying this.
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quote:Originally posted by MLohmeyer

Ya, those brake pads get pretty expensive. That's part of what I meant about racing vs. just doing track days. Why waste a perfectly good brake pad if you aren't trying to win a trophy.


"It's frustrating if you're a microbe that's been wandering the Universe for a million years to then die striking the surface of Europa," --Dr Gladman
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
How else could that be accomplished without pulling the head to grind cams or remove valves?
You shouldnt have to pull the head to swap out your cams.
This was one of the beauties of this modification. Plus, it's inexpensive and easy to revert back (save your original cams, document shim sizing, and get used cams for the conversion.
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quote:Originally posted by MLohmeyer

Ya, those brake pads get pretty expensive. That's part of what I meant about racing vs. just doing track days. Why waste a perfectly good brake pad if you aren't trying to win a trophy.


"It's frustrating if you're a microbe that's been wandering the Universe for a million years to then die striking the surface of Europa," --Dr Gladman
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Old 02-21-2017, 09:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by dangeranger View Post
I think the rule book just states that some physical modification must be made, and then they list the injector bypass as an example of that. I figured that the phrase physical modification was meant to stop the purely electrical methods mentioned above, not meaning something mechanical has to be done internally.
The rule is physical modification to the engine.
The injector only bypass is modifying the harness, not the engine.
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quote:Originally posted by MLohmeyer

Ya, those brake pads get pretty expensive. That's part of what I meant about racing vs. just doing track days. Why waste a perfectly good brake pad if you aren't trying to win a trophy.


"It's frustrating if you're a microbe that's been wandering the Universe for a million years to then die striking the surface of Europa," --Dr Gladman
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Old 02-21-2017, 09:27 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by duh_ave View Post
. However, it seems tech was not consulted and has held, the entire time, that a mechanic disablement was required.
Surely the rule book sets the rules?
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:40 AM   #24
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The interpretation of Tech is the final word, regardless of actual verbiage within the rule book
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quote:Originally posted by MLohmeyer

Ya, those brake pads get pretty expensive. That's part of what I meant about racing vs. just doing track days. Why waste a perfectly good brake pad if you aren't trying to win a trophy.


"It's frustrating if you're a microbe that's been wandering the Universe for a million years to then die striking the surface of Europa," --Dr Gladman
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:45 AM   #25
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Rule 6.1.7b is very clear:
The cylinder disablement must include some physical modifcation to the engine (i.e., cam lobes removed, valves removed, fuel injector(s) bypassed or spark plug removed.)
Bypassing the fuel injectors is perfectly legal, confirmed with AFM tech, and was run by a number of bikes in 2016. That rule is UNCHANGED for 2017.

Dave Wallis is mistaken in his interpretation of the rules and the events of 2016.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:19 AM   #26
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As I already suggested to you, Marcus, check with tech.

I learned this by checking with tech.
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quote:Originally posted by MLohmeyer

Ya, those brake pads get pretty expensive. That's part of what I meant about racing vs. just doing track days. Why waste a perfectly good brake pad if you aren't trying to win a trophy.


"It's frustrating if you're a microbe that's been wandering the Universe for a million years to then die striking the surface of Europa," --Dr Gladman
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:38 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by duh_ave View Post
As I already suggested to you, Marcus, check with tech.

I learned this by checking with tech.
Please stop spreading mis-information.
  • I have discussed this issue with tech.
  • I raced a 450 last year with an injector by-pass.
  • I developed the non-invasive by-pass for the R6 shower injectors.
The rule is correct and the injector by-pass method is legal in the AFM.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:46 AM   #28
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I will gladly apologize if I am Incorrect and encourage everyone to check with tech themselves.

I have been in contact with tech, as you know, on this specific matter just recently, meaning in the last couple of weeks. This is not my interpretation, but tech's interpretation.

So, as a board member, why dont you request an official statement from tech?

Yes, it seems a lot of folks ran this way last year-- it wasn't legal then either.

Why did I contact tech? I've been out of the loop for a couple of years now, more or less. someone Iknow asked me to build a bike on "switches" and so I read the rules to check, since this was illegal a couple of years ago. The rules doesn't say anything about switches, and as a rule of thumb, if the AFM rule book doesn't say you can, then you cannot.
So I called tech and was told no. No switches, and no stand alone injector mod. There must be a physical disablement to the engine, just as the rule
clearly states.
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quote:Originally posted by MLohmeyer

Ya, those brake pads get pretty expensive. That's part of what I meant about racing vs. just doing track days. Why waste a perfectly good brake pad if you aren't trying to win a trophy.


"It's frustrating if you're a microbe that's been wandering the Universe for a million years to then die striking the surface of Europa," --Dr Gladman

Last edited by duh_ave; 02-21-2017 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:58 AM   #29
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Marcus,
Your injector bypass mod will still be valuable as the injectors will still have to be bypassed.
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quote:Originally posted by MLohmeyer

Ya, those brake pads get pretty expensive. That's part of what I meant about racing vs. just doing track days. Why waste a perfectly good brake pad if you aren't trying to win a trophy.


"It's frustrating if you're a microbe that's been wandering the Universe for a million years to then die striking the surface of Europa," --Dr Gladman
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Old 02-21-2017, 12:25 PM   #30
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There is an official statement from tech, it is called the AFM Rule Book.

Nothing else needs to be said about it.

If you do not like it, then do as I suggested: Go to a board meeting and file a motion for the rule to be changed.

As it stands the injector by-pass is legal for 2017 and was legal in 2016.

Your hearsay comments do not change anything.
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