"RIGHT" turns vs. "LEFT" turns: Golden Rule for Staying Alive!

[phoenixrising]

maybe even more

I've noticed that more cagers are crossing the DY than ever before...I now consider 6" in from the line to be the line...it's saved my ass twice in the last few months...great tip, btw!

 

[superbagger01]

Thanks

I am a newbie and will for sure keep the golden rule in mind for sure. I have been on this sight reading all I can and today was my first ride out on the open roads out of the neibor hoods and school parking lots. My dad and I road to calero dam was a nice short ride. I hope to go on some with other BARFer's.

Take care,
Nick

 

[sebastian]

Gary J sorry for asking but im a newbie and i dont get your info to well, can u tell me why again and how it helps i mean why doing the right is harder than the left turn... im confused thanks

 

[Gary J]

Gary J sorry for asking but im a newbie and i dont get your info to well, can u tell me why again and how it helps i mean why doing the right is harder than the left turn... im confused thanks

It's not that the Right turns (on a twisty 2-lane road) are inherently any "harder" to do than the Left turns Segastian, that was the focus of this original thread.

The important lesson to be learned (and reflectively applied to your riding on the backroads), is the significantly different levels of penalty ("consequences") that is attached to running 12" wide of your intended line-of-travel, in Left turns vs. Rights. Running 12" wide on a RIGHT turn, resulting in crossing over the centerline of the road (i.e. "double-yellow"), puts you directly in the path for a head-on collison with oncoming vehicles (bikes and/or cars). A similar 12" line error in Left turn (running off the pavement into the dirt), would generally have a less severe penalty attached.

The lesson to be taken away from this Sebastian, is to consistently keep an extra level of caution when setting your approach speeds for Right turns. Do so, and you'll likely have a long and enjoyable lifetime of riding motorcycles ahead of you!

Gary J

 

[Shadow Busa]

Book Titles

What are the titles of the two books you were talking about? I believe they instructed the rider with basic ridering skills to be a better rider in book-1, and in book-2 instructs the more experienced rider on how to improving his or her skill.

 

[Gary J]

Re: Book Titles

What are the titles of the two books you were talking about? I believe they instructed the rider with basic ridering skills to be a better rider in book-1, and in book-2 instructs the more experienced rider on how to improving his or her skill.

Shadow Busa,

The two small (grassroots effort) paperback sportbike skills training (and suspension setup) books that I've dabbled into writing/publishing are:

- "Sportbiking, The Real World: The Advanced Riders Handbook"

- "Sportbiking, The Real World 2: Rider and Bike Tuning Handbook"

Book 1 targets semi-experienced sportbike riders on techniques for improvement of their skills, for riding done on public backroad twisties. Book 2 raises the bar a notch, with some more advanced techniques (more trackday targeted), and includes about 60 pages covering basic sportbike suspension setup procedures and improved understanding of simple suspension concepts.

The books are nothing fancy, just the sharing of some skills and knowledge learned from the good ole school of "experience" (aka "hard knocks"), that some folks have found to be beneficial.

Gary J

 

[ApriliaGirl]

Thanks Gary,

I think everyone should be aware of this information. I too have been on Stage and Gazos and always try to hug that 1-2' line. I know I've had some close calls when there's been a car or a motorcyle coming the other way and they were on my side of the road. If it hadn't been for me staying so close to the right side many times I'm sure I would have been in a sticky situation.

 

[thmastr]

very true I have not had that happen to me yet where I was almost hit by a guy in my lane...

Unfortunately I have been the other guy in your lane. 3 times since I got my bike (begining of jan).

The first two where in an interval of 2 min, and about 1 min after the second one I ended up off the road on the bank on hamilton rd... It wasnt a good day for me so I decided I would go and ride for about 10 min.... well after that I learned to be 100% focused on the riding while im out there....

the third time was today also in mt hamilton I hit a very wet and slippery patch locked the front weel twice trying to slow down..
ended up half way into the other lane... I locked the front twice trying to slow down.

I have been lucky enough to not have anyone else in that lane while that happened... I wasnt riding hard cause I knew the conditions wherent good.

Igess I think I am a better rider than I really am...


thats all from this newbie!

 

[BatskyStarman]

HOly B'jesus, These words mean alot. Newbies out there (myself included), take note this, its a really big big deal. Just today, I went on a group ride on Redwood, I crossed the line once and hit the dirt another. I crossed the line on a right turn, and hit the dirt on a left turn. Do NOT let your group determine your speed and pace. You MUST know your own limitations. Cannot stress this anymore.

But other than that,

Shit, be safe, and have fun.

Sean

 

[Bikerx260]

Great tip. What I do on roads like Tunitas Creek, Hwy9, 236, etc is ride just inside the right shoulder line if there is one.

My wall is the center of MY lane, because cagers ALWAYS cut their corners, and this will always give me that little extra to stay alive.

 

[mclark925]

I really enjoyed reading this. I always thought of the consequence of crossing over the yellow line going either direction. Never thought of the one haveing more consequences then the other. I recently hit some gravel on a left hand turn and lost the bike into the gravel on the shoulder. The thought never occured to me if that were to happen going the other direction... bike would have been lost in oncoming traffic. Great food for thought...thank you!

 

[Flying Pig]

for a good short read, especially for those newer to BARF who might not have come across the thread.

Thanks Gary

 

[sjmike]

Oncoming cars, when slightly out of control, tend to go wide on corners. That puts them squarely in your path on a lefthander. On mountain roads, that will frequently leave your only out a sheer drop down the mountainside. on a right hand corner, if you cut in hard and go off road, it'll usually be into a ditch or trees. That , to me, is a better alternative to falling off a mountain or colliding with 2 tons of out of control steel.

If you lowside on a right, the approching traffic will likely be going wide and give you more room to slide and probably avoid crashing into an oncoming vehicle.

this is exactly the opposite of common sense and opposite of what gary j has stated.

I have seen what happens when bikes cross the double yellow and you never win. Your views are incorrect and dangerous for new riders to listen to.

I will gladly take a tumble down a ravine instead of doing 50 into a car doing 50.

 

[jraice]

damn good words Gary! hell, even on left handers when your all leaned over sometimes i'll look down and see my helmet is just above the double yellow . it happens so quick, you just really need to pay attention to where you are in relation to the "wall". be safe everyone.

This is a big factor IMHO... and I think it counteracts the added risks of running wide on a right. Yes, rights have oncoming traffic as an added "bonus" if you go down, but lets not underestimate the risks of going down on a left, still plenty of places for serious harm.

And as was said, on a left your lane size is limited much more so then your right, because you need to keep your body on your side of the line. On a left without crossing the double yellow your apex is still very close to the centerline, on a right you can tighten it up significantly so going 12"s wide on a right maybe put you in the middle of your lane, while going 12"s wide on a left may put you into the dirt, and from there I still think there is plenty that can go very wrong.

Just my .02.

 

[sjmike]

posted by jraice

And as was said, on a left your lane size is limited much more so then your right, because you need to keep your body on your side of the line. On a left without crossing the double yellow your apex is still very close to the centerline, on a right you can tighten it up significantly so going 12"s wide on a right maybe put you in the middle of your lane, .

I believe gary IS saying to tighten it up on a right. ie stay away from the double yellow.

while going 12"s wide on a left may put you into the dirt, and from there I still think there is plenty that can go very wrong

you insinuate there is less road to work with on a left hander. there is actually more most of the time with a couple feet of run off. if there is gravel there oh well. better a lowside in gravel than hitting a car over the double yellow in a right hander as there is no run off on the double yellow, also if there is gravel on a lefthander you can quite often straigten up and ride it out without falling using the rear brake, you do that on a right and you are guaranteed to hit a car if oncoming.
IE what can still go very wrong on a left is rashed fairings, scrapes, bruised egos and maybe broken bones if the rider is extremely unlucky.
In a right you roll the dice whether you hit a car and die or miss and face the same EXACT fate as sliding off your side of road.
Double I.E. a right hander gives you the same risk as a left with the added bonus of hitting a car and dying.



I had a buddy in the situation you proclaim not too long ago. he was in a left hander and head was over the double yellow and a car was coming right for him. It was actually slightly over the yellow itself. he just let the bike lowside and he was fine. bike slid off into the gravel and as he was in a LEFTHAND TURN he slid right and was safe.

there is absolutely no validity to your argument.

right handers kill as all momentum sweeps you into death aka oncoming traffic and left handers sweep you to safety.

if you ride with that final thought in your mind up in the hills you will live to be an old crotchety annoying poster.
If you dont well theres always room for another R.I.P. thread as young riders dont heed the advice of this thread and some experienced riders DOWNPLAY the danger implying there is danger in all corners.
THIS IS FALSE and DANGEROUS for inexperienced riders to see. They need to know a tumble is much better than becoming a hood ornament next to a splattered bug on a car.

 

[jraice]

posted by jraice

I believe gary IS saying to tighten it up on a right. ie stay away from the double yellow.



you insinuate there is less road to work with on a left hander. there is actually more most of the time with a couple feet of run off. if there is gravel there oh well. better a lowside in gravel than hitting a car over the double yellow in a right hander as there is no run off on the double yellow, also if there is gravel on a lefthander you can quite often straigten up and ride it out without falling using the rear brake, you do that on a right and you are guaranteed to hit a car if oncoming.
IE what can still go very wrong on a left is rashed fairings, scrapes, bruised egos and maybe broken bones if the rider is extremely unlucky.
In a right you roll the dice whether you hit a car and die or miss and face the same EXACT fate as sliding off your side of road.
Double I.E. a right hander gives you the same risk as a left with the added bonus of hitting a car and dying.



I had a buddy in the situation you proclaim not too long ago. he was in a left hander and head was over the double yellow and a car was coming right for him. It was actually slightly over the yellow itself. he just let the bike lowside and he was fine. bike slid off into the gravel and as he was in a LEFTHAND TURN he slid right and was safe.

there is absolutely no validity to your argument.

right handers kill as all momentum sweeps you into death aka oncoming traffic and left handers sweep you to safety.

if you ride with that final thought in your mind up in the hills you will live to be an old crotchety annoying poster.
If you dont well theres always room for another R.I.P. thread as young riders dont heed the advice of this thread and some experienced riders DOWNPLAY the danger implying there is danger in all corners.
THIS IS FALSE and DANGEROUS for inexperienced riders to see. They need to know a tumble is much better than becoming a hood ornament next to a splattered bug on a car.

Your buddy crashed in a left hand turn, slid off into something soft and survived. I could find someone that slid off on a right and hit nothing and survived... Hell I could probably even find someone that went straight into a car and survived.

I am sure there are also plenty of people who went down in a left and either died due to impact with a stationary object (tree, guardrail etc... ) or went off a cliff... Lots of those around here (backside of 9, parts of the front side, Highway 1 twisty bits etc...)

The point is either way a crash can be fine, or be life threatening... And I feel there is more room on a right if you are smart about your lines and cut in sharp, you have more then 3/4 of the lane to work with. On a left you have much less space to work with if you want to stay safely inside the DY.

Just my opinion though... Point is either way you need to slow down enough to respond to the conditions. At 10/10's pace it really doesnt matter, your going to go down eventually.

 

[sjmike]

true enough

 

[preload]

Lately I've been staying mid-lane going into a turn until I can see the apex. It's not always the best line, but it's pretty safe, especially as traffic gets heavier, even on weekdays.

 

[jinhomc]

Good reminder!

 

[tzrider]

You've bumped a couple of old threads today without adding new info. This is generally considered bad form, as it clutters people's feeds of recent threads with material that is long inactive. I'm glad you're finding value in this material, but if you don't have anything to add, it would be better to just read it and leave it at that.