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San Bernardino active shooting.

GAJ said:
Well there is also the allegedly contacted alleged terrorists part and the methodology of the attack which points to some advanced training.

Doesn't exactly read like Bonnie and Clyde wannabes.
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Note the word in bold.

Sorry, but these days I don't trust the US govt's theories about who is and isn't a terrorist.
 
Reli said:
Note the word in bold.

Sorry, but these days I don't trust the US govt's theories about who is and isn't a terrorist.
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CNN at the beginning was exactly in your camp as were most people.

The narrative from them and others is beginning to change.

The possibility exists that it was a directed attack with support from overseas, training or otherwise, but that conclusion cannot be asserted completely at this point as the investigation has only just begun.
 
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Marcoose said:
Ahhh ... the great 'Murican paradox. Moar gunz pleeze!.
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More good parenting please!! :afm199


I am wondering why some do not want to call this a terrorist act??

Motive for that?
 
GAJ said:
The possibility exists that it was a directed attack ...
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Key words which I agree with. I just wish more people would use them, instead of automatically condemning a US citizen for his nationality or where he chooses to travel.
 
Reli said:
Key words which I agree with. I just wish more people would use them, instead of automatically condemning a US citizen for his nationality or where he chooses to travel.
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Oh yeah, way too early to draw a conclusion either way.
 
Doesn't calling it a terror attack accomplish, by definition, the terrorist's goal? Why can't we just call it a horrible and repugnant crime and learn from it to prevent or mitigate future attacks?

I wonder if we spent the trillions we spent in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 15 years on proactive, Israeli-style intelligence and judiciously applied foreign aid program (look at what China does in the Middle East and Africa) if we would be the global target for terror.

Anyway, my hope is the Russians start behaving like irresponsible monsters a la Afghanistan in the 80s and start taking the heat from jihadist.
 
budman said:
More good parenting please!! :afm199


I am wondering why some do not want to call this a terrorist act??

Motive for that?
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Because it has no bearing on any decision I need to make, nor is there any benefit for jumping to a conclusion
 
CoorsLight said:
In your opinion are there any fundamental differences between the fear of terrorism, the fear of Islam, and the fear of guns?

Seems to me that most folks what to ascribe events like this to one root cause, and it usually ends up being terror, too many guns, too few guns, mental illness, or religion. And then they start thinking about all their civil rights they want to surrender so that they feel safer.

It's disgusting to me. These bodies aren't even in the ground, and you have people on all parts of the political spectrum already standing on their graves, using the event to attack their fear, and demand that everyone give up more civil rights in the name of security.

I get it. You're scared. But is it really appropriate to leverage the deaths of innocents for your political ends? For now at least, can we mourn these people, and not use them as political tools?
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Sorry, I meant with sarcasm.
 
CoorsLight said:
It's disgusting to me. These bodies aren't even in the ground, and you have people on all parts of the political spectrum already standing on their graves, using the event to attack their fear, and demand that everyone give up more civil rights in the name of security.

I get it. You're scared. But is it really appropriate to leverage the deaths of innocents for your political ends? For now at least, can we mourn these people, and not use them as political tools?
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As you're a smart person, probably a PhD, I invite you to calculate and tell us the supposed average time we should wait after which we can discuss "security" :rolleyes in the presence of 355 (that's three hundred fifty-five) mass-shootings in this country this year.

We might end up with a backlog of time-to-wait. Do we have that already?
 
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The idea that a woman with a 6 month old baby decided to become genocidal maniac because her husband was pissed off at his coworkers is let's just say hard to belive.
Could be my bias, but to me it is clear a islamic terrorist attack. They're plan actually worked pretty well as they manage to do the hit and then disappear. They where found because of a neighbour's tip to the police. So basically luck. Not that it would have taken the police long to figure out who did it but maybe long enough for them to be in a Mexican international airport
 
Saying "this looks like a terrorist attack" is not the same as saying that it is fact. We can all draw our own conclusions, or choose to wait, but the evidence available at this time certainly seems to point in a certain direction.

You don't get angry at work, leave, just happen to have the ingredients to make multiple bombs and the knowledge to build them, assemble em really quick, then go back and shoot everyone up.
 
Corb said:
The idea that a woman with a 6 month old baby decided to become genocidal maniac because her husband was pissed off at his coworkers is let's just say hard to belive.
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Indeed. Speaking of poor parenting...
 
Corb said:
The idea that a woman with a 6 month old baby decided to become genocidal maniac because her husband was pissed off at his coworkers is let's just say hard to belive.
Could be my bias, but to me it is clear a islamic terrorist attack. They're plan actually worked pretty well as they manage to do the hit and then disappear. They where found because of a neighbour's tip to the police. So basically luck. Not that it would have taken the police long to figure out who did it but maybe long enough for them to be in a Mexican international airport
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I think you're right, that it seems likely at this point. I do want to wait to pass judgement, not so much for fear of not being PC but just becasue I think there's more going on here than your usual terrorist attack.
 
teg916 said:
You don't get angry at work, leave, just happen to have the ingredients to make multiple bombs and the knowledge to build them, assemble em really quick, then go back and shoot everyone up.
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Agreed. This guy was a massacre-in-planning waiting to happen.
 
Gabe said:
Doesn't calling it a terror attack accomplish, by definition, the terrorist's goal? Why can't we just call it a horrible and repugnant crime and learn from it to prevent or mitigate future attacks?

I wonder if we spent the trillions we spent in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 15 years on proactive, Israeli-style intelligence and judiciously applied foreign aid program (look at what China does in the Middle East and Africa) if we would be the global target for terror.

Anyway, my hope is the Russians start behaving like irresponsible monsters a la Afghanistan in the 80s and start taking the heat from jihadist.
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:applause

It's so useless to use the word terrorism. It has us fighting a war with a concept, a tactic, not something concrete. Call these attacks what they are: murders. The enemy is the murderers. Terrorism is not an enemy. It's an abstract concept that no one can define absolutely.

AbsolutEnduser said:
As you're a smart person, probably a PhD, I invite you to calculate and tell us the supposed average time we should wait after which we can discuss "security" :rolleyes in the presence of 355 (that's three hundred fifty-five) mass-shootings in this country this year.

We might end up with a backlog of time-to-wait. Do we have that already?
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We can have the discussion as soon as people can take the emotion out of the equation. If any people can't be dispassionate about the event or events, those people shouldn't be included discussions regarding solutions. Their fear and anger yields the same knee-jerk reaction every time: put civil rights on the chopping block.

Regrettably, the same people who legislate "solutions" are the exact same people who use emotions to tow the line of their pet political crusade.

EDIT: I should add that I am very angry about this event. I used to live nearby there, and drove up and down Waterman at least weekly. It hurts to know that this affected a community I used to be a part of. I'm trying to avoid the trap of blaming this on a religion, a tactic, or a tool.

Marcoose said:
Agreed. This guy was a massacre-in-planning waiting to happen.
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+1
 
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What are the mathematical odds that a building where law enforcement has been active-shooter drilling for months would be randomly hit by "terrorists"?

LA Times

At first, Dorothy Vong assumed it was a drill -- just like all the others at her work.

At the Inland Regional Center, where she’s a nurse, the staff works with clients and parents of clients who are sometimes angry. They have active-shooter drills every month or so.

“Drill started,” she texted her husband, Mark, around 11 a.m.

She walked to a window nearby and filmed a video as law enforcement sprinted toward the building.

“Oh, that is scary,” a voice says calmly in the background.

“They’re all geared up!” someone else says. “Rifles and everything!”

In the background, someone laughs -- they still didn’t know.

Then the reality set in.

She texted her husband again: “Well it’s real.”

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...ng-inland-regional-center-20151202-story.html
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Interestingly, nearly all mass attacks here in the US since & including 9/11 featured active drills in the area on the same day.
 
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