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Swim Training Questions

wannabe

"Insignificant Other"
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Location
San Jose, CA
Moto(s)
yes
Name
Aris
BARF perks
2006 Barfie
Hey Gang,

I'm hoping that someone here can help and answer my swim training questions. I was training for a half marathon, and on my 'rest' days, I would just swim with a pool buoy and just do all upper body to make sure that my legs got enough rest. Something just clicked a couple weeks ago. I went from barely being able to swim 25 meters without stopping to being able to swim a half a mile then a whole mile in the span of a week. It was the weirdest thing.

Well, I screwed up and hurt my legs while running this week, so I'm going do be swimming primarily until my legs recover. I have no interest in anything other than freestyle. The question I have is can you swim every day of the week without having to worry about anything, or would I have to take a 'rest' break once or twice a week like I do with running? Or, is it like cycling where the more miles you put on your body the stronger you get?

By the way, in case anyone cares, I've lost 23lbs so far in the month that I've been doing this. I suspect that the added weight and too much running mileage too soon contributed to the leg damage, so I figure that I'll try to swim off some more weight so that there is less stress on my joints when my legs finally recover.
 
You might want to ping Billswim.
 
Just doing steady pace / long distances the way you seem to be focused shouldn't put much stress on your body.

You said that you aren't interested in anything but freestyle, but if part of what you're doing this for is to maintain cardio and help improve breath control then you might want to spend some days mixing up your stroke to avoid repetitive stress on your shoulders.
 
Swimming is very low impact. you should alternate from high speed sprints and long leisurely swims.
 
Just doing steady pace / long distances the way you seem to be focused shouldn't put much stress on your body.

You said that you aren't interested in anything but freestyle, but if part of what you're doing this for is to maintain cardio and help improve breath control then you might want to spend some days mixing up your stroke to avoid repetitive stress on your shoulders.



Really? That happens? It's hard to believe because my upper body and shoulder flexibility seems to have improved significantly since I started swimming. (No irony at all. Serious question.)

Roughly every 300 meters, I rotate between just a steady pace (cardio) and doing drills to work on my stroke. My left side has a lot of catching up to do. But, the main things I'm working on right now are:

1. Rotating my hips with each stroke
2. Doing a 'chaser' drill where I don't start the next stroke until both hands are up front at the same time. (I definitely notice a longer glide when I do this.)
 
I have an AC Separation, and in general its a nogo to do swimming till it heals. Been waiting nearly a year now :/
 
Really? That happens? It's hard to believe because my upper body and shoulder flexibility seems to have improved significantly since I started swimming. (No irony at all. Serious question.)

Not often from swimming alone. If you weight train and swim, yes, you can do some serious shoulder damage if you aren't careful. But just plain freestyle with no weights, water polo heat throwing it is very difficult to do damage to your shoulders.

Authority: I swam 6 hours a day for over a decade. I played water polo for the USA and for Berkeley and have a couple NCAA championships and 20 years ago had swimming records all over NorCal. I had a shoulder surgery in 1992 and am attuned to shoulder injury issues.

Go ahead and keep swimming, dude.

Probably the reason you got faster with the pull buoy is because your legs were probably spaz-anchors slowing you down and now you've figured out how to flow better.

And "interval training" is magic. I'm sure the google will give you tons of interesting "interval training" swim workouts.
 
The question I have is can you swim every day of the week without having to worry about anything, or would I have to take a 'rest' break once or twice a week like I do with running?

Yes. No need to rest. 20 years ago the NCAA had rules about the maximum number of hours we were permitted to swim per week. I don't know what the limit was because we always broke it. If we didn't have meets on Sat and Sun we swam 7 days a week, sometimes 13,000 yards a day.

Or, is it like cycling where the more miles you put on your body the stronger you get?
Yes as long as your form doesn't suck. If your form sucks you are just burning in sucky form. But yes, more does = better.
 
Really? That happens?

It's not an issue with good form, but some people think that the proper form for freestyle is to pretend you're a windmill. I understand your focus on freestyle, but the benefits from working some other groups of muscles once, and giving others a break, seems worth it.

The other strokes are also useful if you find yourself in an unexpected situation; you could cramp up and have to limp back to shore, or even tow another competitor.
 
+2 to asking Billswim. He does swim and he coaches swimming as well IIRC.
 
Not often from swimming alone. If you weight train and swim, yes, you can do some serious shoulder damage if you aren't careful. But just plain freestyle with no weights, water polo heat throwing it is very difficult to do damage to your shoulders.

Authority: I swam 6 hours a day for over a decade. I played water polo for the USA and for Berkeley and have a couple NCAA championships and 20 years ago had swimming records all over NorCal. I had a shoulder surgery in 1992 and am attuned to shoulder injury issues.

Go ahead and keep swimming, dude.

Probably the reason you got faster with the pull buoy is because your legs were probably spaz-anchors slowing you down and now you've figured out how to flow better.

And "interval training" is magic. I'm sure the google will give you tons of interesting "interval training" swim workouts.

Yes. No need to rest. 20 years ago the NCAA had rules about the maximum number of hours we were permitted to swim per week. I don't know what the limit was because we always broke it. If we didn't have meets on Sat and Sun we swam 7 days a week, sometimes 13,000 yards a day.

Yes as long as your form doesn't suck. If your form sucks you are just burning in sucky form. But yes, more does = better.



Thank you for the advice, sir! :thumbup

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. So, swimming is exactly like cycling? This is good. This is very good...

BTW, I didn't say that I went faster with the pool buoy. I went a lot longer. But, you're right. My legs probably just spazzed and sucked up all the oxygen. I'm swimming without it now, and I'm using my kick more to keep me horizontal in the water than to actually propel me forward. That actually makes me swim faster than when I spazzed and tried to swim faster with a faster kick.

This is all so freakin awesome! Youtube is so pimp. I had no idea that there were so many different freestyle techniques.

Most of my life, I looked at my swimming friends as a bit odd. I never could understand how someone could relax and swim forever. I could do that with cycling and running, but I could never do that with swimming until now.
 
Authority: I swam 6 hours a day for over a decade. I played water polo for the USA and for Berkeley and have a couple NCAA championships and 20 years ago had swimming records all over NorCal. I had a shoulder surgery in 1992 and am attuned to shoulder injury issues.
In case anyone missed this ^^^^ This is the real deal. Water polo at Cal is serious business. Sammy, I swam for Cal for a couple of years in the 80s before a shoulder problem and a personality problem got me off the team. Would be great to meet you IRL and chat about the old days. Did you play for Cutino?
Hey Gang,

I'm hoping that someone here can help and answer my swim training questions. I was training for a half marathon, and on my 'rest' days, I would just swim with a pool buoy and just do all upper body to make sure that my legs got enough rest. Something just clicked a couple weeks ago. I went from barely being able to swim 25 meters without stopping to being able to swim a half a mile then a whole mile in the span of a week. It was the weirdest thing.

Good for you! Great start. Swimming is a great sport to cross train for just about any other sport one might be interested in.

I have an AC Separation, and in general its a nogo to do swimming till it heals. Been waiting nearly a year now :/

Go for it. I had/have a 3rd degree separation and was swimming again in three weeks. Its a great way to build up support for the damaged ligaments.

All that being said, Aris, swimming is great. Its very, very technique orientated. The water increases drag on your body to such a large degree that efficiency in movement is greatly rewarded. As Sammy pointed out, no you don't need off days to recover from swimming but you do need off days to recover from training. If you're training 7 days a week you will fatigue and go backwards. Most people don't train anywhere near that level so I doubt you'll have to worry.

Also, as Sammy pointed out if you practice poor form all you are doing is reinforcing bad habits, not good. My strong recommendation is to go swim with a coach/instructor/trainer and have them give you a few tips on how to improve your technique. Go back and work those things for a while and then come back.

I'd be happy to work with you if our schedules permit. The next two weeks I'll be in Kona for the iron man. I have two guys I work with competing and they invited me to come watch/coach them right up to the race.

For starters, count your strokes across the pool. In a 25 yard pool, 20 strokes is the demarcation line between a swimmer and non-swimmer.

Let us know what your numbers are.
 
You guys (Swimmers) are all Gods to me. I fit the stereotype; Black person who could not swim.

I learned to swim about 8 years ago, at age 42. It took me a very long time and finally I got a GREAT group of instructors and it finally clicked.
 
In case anyone missed this ^^^^ This is the real deal. Water polo at Cal is serious business. Sammy, I swam for Cal for a couple of years in the 80s before a shoulder problem and a personality problem got me off the team. Would be great to meet you IRL and chat about the old days. Did you play for Cutino?


Good for you! Great start. Swimming is a great sport to cross train for just about any other sport one might be interested in.

All that being said, Aris, swimming is great. Its very, very technique orientated. The water increases drag on your body to such a large degree that efficiency in movement is greatly rewarded. As Sammy pointed out, no you don't need off days to recover from swimming but you do need off days to recover from training. If you're training 7 days a week you will fatigue and go backwards. Most people don't train anywhere near that level so I doubt you'll have to worry.

Also, as Sammy pointed out if you practice poor form all you are doing is reinforcing bad habits, not good. My strong recommendation is to go swim with a coach/instructor/trainer and have them give you a few tips on how to improve your technique. Go back and work those things for a while and then come back.

I'd be happy to work with you if our schedules permit. The next two weeks I'll be in Kona for the iron man. I have two guys I work with competing and they invited me to come watch/coach them right up to the race.

For starters, count your strokes across the pool. In a 25 yard pool, 20 strokes is the demarcation line between a swimmer and non-swimmer.

Let us know what your numbers are.



Thank you, sir! thumbup

I'll count my strokes per lap tomorrow morning, but I suspect that it's gonna be a heck of a lot more than 20 strokes. I did see a guy there last week who was using a kick board, and he was kicking like crazy in the middle of the pool and not moving. I think I'd be somewhere in between. :teeth

My gym (Club One) has a Masters Swimming program in the mornings. I met the coach, and I'll see about getting advice from her on my stroke. When I was much younger, I was getting some coaching at the Santa Clara Swim Center because it was free with my membership in the Silicon Valley Triathalon club. But, it never stuck back then.

Thanks for the coaching offer, but I think that there is a distance issue since I live in South San Jose. But, I think I understand what you and Sammy are saying. I was focusing on just getting my cardio up, but since I am so new to this, it would be better to focus more on technique because it's going to be harder to fix the bad habits later. I already notice my technique suffering when I start to get tired.

I've been using a Finis snorkel to work on evening up my stroke. The first time I used it, I noticed just how much weaker my left side is.
 
Sammy, I swam for Cal for a couple of years in the 80s before a shoulder problem and a personality problem got me off the team. Would be great to meet you IRL and chat about the old days. Did you play for Cutino?

G O B E A R S ! !

Yeah I played for Heaston. I remember Cutino though from my U16 and U18 USA team days at Spieker--I'll have to dig up some old pics. Those were great old days. If you ever do a trackday LMK I'm up there a lot and of course at AFM races as well.
 
When I was much younger, I was getting some coaching at the Santa Clara Swim Center because it was free with my membership in the Silicon Valley Triathalon club. But, it never stuck back then.

Still free if you're a member of SVTC :thumbup, but swims are at Fremont High School, Sunnyvale....and Coach Laura is also the coach for Mountain View Masters.
 
If you can't get coaching, try checking out Total Immersion. You can borrow a copy of the book at your local library.

The drills in the book helped make swimming easier for me. I get across the pool in about 15 strokes, but I'm slow and glide a lot.
 
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