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high speed rail fail

mlm said:
There's no shortage of reservations about HSR (I've posted many complaints in the past), but you seem to be picking the least significant of them. The speed reduction between Gilroy and San Jose doesn't amount to that much time since it only covers about 40 miles...my guess would be less than 15 minutes (average speed won't be reduced as much as max speed)

Fact is, large infrastructure projects of ALL types run into these types of problems. The spending is insane until you contrast it with other projects, and weigh in the indirect effects on the local economy. I can say I feel better about the money spent on this than the multi-billion dollar defense program I used to work on.

edit: I agree the trains per hour COULD be a significant limitation, although it is difficult to quantify the actual impact without knowing regional transportation capacity (what I think is the biggest problem with transportation)
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I could find many more examples. My post is meant to encourage people to read and decide for themselves. The big issue to me is that this project will likely be obsolete when finished in 2040.
Other issues? How about not finding a way through Pacheco and the fault? Or San Gabriel fault?
This is a transportation issue more than a political issue.
 
enki said:
I could find many more examples. My post is meant to encourage people to read and decide for themselves. The big issue to me is that this project will likely be obsolete when finished in 2040.
Other issues? How about not finding a way through Pacheco and the fault? Or San Gabriel fault?
This is a transportation issue more than a political issue.
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Mostly agree...especially the bolded part :thumbup

As stated, the difficult thing for me is that it seems almost all big infrastructure projects are similar. I'm also not sure I agree that having a rail system would be obsolete.
 
High speed rail is so obsolete that China is building out their high speed rail network like gangbusters. : |
 
Maybe we'll get a referendum vote on it to kill it. One can hope.
 
wazzuFreddo said:
High speed rail is so obsolete that China is building out their high speed rail network like gangbusters. : |
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OK? USA is not China, and hopefully never will be.

And what's the population density in China? What's the cost? Etc etc..
 
Maybe we can just get PG&E to take care of our future transportation needs. :laughing
 
It’s an issue of priorities and money IMO...does Newsome choose education, health care or foundering HSR? I don’t believe Cal can print its own money.
 
easter bunny said:
Those people should be prosecuted for fiscal malfeasance, misuse of public funds, and/or abuse of public office.
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But, Jerry was elected and the project was voter approved. Regardless of bad sub-contractors, voters in California need to take some adult responsibility. It was a poor idea from the start, run by a PROVEN terrible fiscal manager, and gadfly.

Another example is the Santa Cruz transportation tax of 2016. It read to the poorly informed like it would help the congestion on Hwy One. However, half the money was allocated for bike trails. DOH! As of today, nothing has been done on Hwy One. It is a terrible 30 year tax on Santa Cruz Country Residents that never should have passed.
 
Most of the problems I've seen with this Phase I of construction is the Authority rushed to begin the project without having land acquisitions in place. This has resulted in numerous unscheduled mobilizations/demobilzations. It's not like we move in and out in a day. Cranes, drill rigs require 3-5 flat bed trucks and a 9-axle to move them in and out. And because we can only work on small parcels here and there, there are also inefficiencies to production that are real costs.

Also, when we're performing the work, some of the work might be approved but some of it might not be, so we may have to come back when the work is approved (which has happened).

I price all this shit out and pass it along to the HSR Authority. It's fucked up but lack of planning could have prevented this. Oh well, maybe before I die I can take it from SF to Bakersfield.
 
It's sad that this country can't do large infrastructure projects anymore. Japan, Europe, China have a well working rail and high speed system. Here we can't even build one across mostly scarcely populated areas.

Was watching documentary on how one of the tallest bridges was built in France. It was done on time and within budget.
 
DTM74 said:
Most of the problems I've seen with this Phase I of construction is the Authority rushed to begin the project without having land acquisitions in place. This has resulted in numerous unscheduled mobilizations/demobilzations. It's not like we move in and out in a day. Cranes, drill rigs require 3-5 flat bed trucks and a 9-axle to move them in and out. And because we can only work on small parcels here and there, there are also inefficiencies to production that are real costs.

Also, when we're performing the work, some of the work might be approved but some of it might not be, so we may have to come back when the work is approved (which has happened).

I price all this shit out and pass it along to the HSR Authority. It's fucked up but lack of planning could have prevented this. Oh well, maybe before I die I can take it from SF to Bakersfield.
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From the report, that is a major problem...BUT, so was a gross underestimation of the cost of all of the water and sewage lines and cable and power lines that needed to be moved. Per the report, these led to "change orders," which increased costs, and in many cases HSR picked up the extra cost rather than holding the contractors' feet to the fire.

Do you work on the project? Curious to know if you feel that construction can double its present pace to avoid returning $3 billion to the feds in 2022.
Ouch, that would hurt the state budget.
 
enki said:
From the report, that is a major problem...BUT, so was a gross underestimation of the cost of all of the water and sewage lines and cable and power lines that needed to be moved. Per the report, these led to "change orders," which increased costs, and in many cases HSR picked up the extra cost rather than holding the contractors' feet to the fire.

Do you work on the project? Curious to know if you feel that construction can double its present pace to avoid returning $3 billion to the feds in 2022.
Ouch, that would hurt the state budget.
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I wonder if that $3b is part of the vaunted "surplus" they campaigned on.
 
MysterYvil said:
I wonder if that $3b is part of the vaunted "surplus" they campaigned on.
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That is the federal assistance that arrived during Obama's administration...most of it part of the Economic Recovery Act of 2008 (?). Of course, it's possible that the state could get an extension with a Democratic House and possibly a Democratic Senate in 2020....but with an economic downturn...who knows.
 
Johndicezx9 said:
If they gave passenger trains priority over freight trains our system could work better and be more convenient... maybe...
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Passenger trains don’t pay the bills. Not by a long shot. In fact, they usually lose money. Freight makes the money, so they get priority as they should.

The HSR is stupid and pointless other than to make certain people richer than they already are. Fix BART. That’s worth the effort.
 
enki said:
From the report, that is a major problem...BUT, so was a gross underestimation of the cost of all of the water and sewage lines and cable and power lines that needed to be moved. Per the report, these led to "change orders," which increased costs, and in many cases HSR picked up the extra cost rather than holding the contractors' feet to the fire.

Do you work on the project? Curious to know if you feel that construction can double its present pace to avoid returning $3 billion to the feds in 2022.
Ouch, that would hurt the state budget.
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Well, I'll say we've had a couple locations where we've had to wait for an O/H line to be removed/de-energized prior to drilling. O/H lines can be a different animal and are in the HSR Authority's court. One location was not a problem but we have one location at Downtown Fresno which won't be relocated until next year. Obviously that's an extra charge where we have some, not much, equipment standing by when that work is ready to go.

I do work on the project. It's hard to say about construction doubling it's pace. We're only on the first phase (CP-1). We'll be done and another contractor will do the next phase, and then another will do the next phase. I want to say it should but with what I've seen from these guys, I can't be certain.
 
UDRider said:
It's sad that this country can't do large infrastructure projects anymore. Japan, Europe, China have a well working rail and high speed system. Here we can't even build one across mostly scarcely populated areas.

Was watching documentary on how one of the tallest bridges was built in France. It was done on time and within budget.
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Why build HSR in low population areas? That’s why it works in Japan, China and Europe. Much higher population density.

Also, those places generally DGAF about property rights and will blast full speed ahead, f you if you don’t like it. I mean, they’re kinda doing that here but there are way more hurdles to overcome, ie peons to plow under.
 
aminalmutha said:
Passenger trains don’t pay the bills. Not by a long shot. In fact, they usually lose money. Freight makes the money, so they get priority as they should.

The HSR is stupid and pointless other than to make certain people richer than they already are. Fix BART. That’s worth the effort.
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aminalmutha said:
Why build HSR in low population areas? That’s why it works in Japan, China and Europe. Much higher population density.

Also, those places generally DGAF about property rights and will blast full speed ahead, f you if you don’t like it. I mean, they’re kinda doing that here but there are way more hurdles to overcome, ie peons to plow under.
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Yeah interesting that you want Bart. It's the same. Kinda hypocritical to want Bart but not a train to LA.

The 'peons' are actually rich NIMBYs. Like Marin and Atherton. (As we know that's why no Bart there. )

If the projects are both led well ideally a Bart and a train to LA should be beneficial to A Community.
 
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