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What will it take to convince you of climate change?

A more interesting question might be, "If you believe in climate change (no need to define it, everyone has their own interpretation), what are you doing to mitigate it's impact on your lifestyle, or future generations of human lifestyles."

My understanding of climate change, requires a group effort of all humans to modify their behavior in an attempt to prolong our existence upon this planet. Condescension towards other humans is unlikely to help in this goal, if that is your intent.
 
cfives said:
A more interesting question might be, "If you believe in climate change (no need to define it, everyone has their own interpretation), what are you doing to mitigate it's impact on your lifestyle, or future generations of human lifestyles."

My understanding of climate change, requires a group effort of all humans to modify their behavior in an attempt to prolong our existence upon this planet. Condescension towards other humans is unlikely to help in this goal, if that is your intent.
Click to expand...

I posted this before in this thread,but short version is this shifting of responsibility to individuals is a con by corporations and special interest that allow them to continue fucking things up on massive scale and provide disingenuous arguments "well if you believe in climate change why are you doing X". Painting the person as a hypocrite and allowing them to dismiss he/her concerns while ignoring structural barriers they put up.
 
Don’t know about many on here but I feel riding a motorcycle is mitigating something but I’m not sure what direct impact climate change has on my lifestyle other than additional cost.
 
UDRider said:
I posted this before in this thread,but short version is this shifting of responsibility to individuals is a con by corporations and special interest that allow them to continue fucking things up on massive scale and provide disingenuous arguments "well if you believe in climate change why are you doing X". Painting the person as a hypocrite and allowing them to dismiss he/her concerns while ignoring structural barriers they put up.
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:thumbup
 
UDRider said:
I posted this before in this thread,but short version is this shifting of responsibility to individuals is a con by corporations and special interest that allow them to continue fucking things up on massive scale and provide disingenuous arguments "well if you believe in climate change why are you doing X". Painting the person as a hypocrite and allowing them to dismiss he/her concerns while ignoring structural barriers they put up.
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Special interests and corporations are parasites feeding off of us, so why should we expect to be saved by them. From my perspective, 1st world expectations of availability and consumption, should be revised before 2nd, and 3rd world peeps expect to just hop onto the gravy train! I am a pessimist in general, but do think that a drastic reduction of amenities among 1st world citizens will be seen by my generation.
 
Climber said:
:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

I can't say anymore with getting poly_sacked, but your perception is decades out of date. :laughing
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It is not, because those directional fundamentals do not change, as they are fundamental concepts. A particular political party, who shall remain nameless and of which I am not a member, may be failing to live up to those principals, but that of course is exactly what I said.

:dunno

brichter said:
Pretty sure that’s the “new” Libertarian party, now that all the RINOs invaded it.
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Perhaps, but that does not change my statement?

You are you guys having some kind of secret party based arguement using intentionally obfuscated language to keep it out of Polisink? I feel like I am falling into some kind of party based assumption with you guys here when I wasn't discussing Political Parties?
 
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brichter said:
Do you have a problem with them using your tax dollars to subsidize the fossil fuel industry?
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People keep saying that, but,

I'm unaware of subsidies or tax credits in the Fossil fuel industry. Care to enlighten?
 
Brokenlink said:
Just going to put a little info about subsidies to the oil and gas industry as well as to green energy. No comment, but I suggest someone reads them before they start "MAH TAX DOLLARS AINT GOING TO SUBSISDIZE NO GREEN ENERGY BULLSHIT!!!!11!!!!!1"

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...tes put U.S. direct,natural gas and crude oil.


https://www.ewg.org/energy/22777/federal-energy-subsidies-what-are-we-getting-our-money
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Companies are allowed certain tax deductions for their expenses. Oil can't have them?? Most of what is described is just that. The sec 199a business deduction is available to all industries, not just fossil fuel. The so called direct subsidies expired ten years ago.

Just another lefty rant.:rolleyes
 
Abacinator said:
Of all the stupid shit your tax dollars subsidize, green energy is really your biggest concern? :wtf
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It's not my biggest concern. That would be my grandchildren.

But every tax I pay for so called green shit is less I can give to them.:cool
 
mrmarklin said:
Nothing to read. Somehow the left sees tax deductions as subsidies...:rolleyes
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:laughing



sub·si·dy (from the google)
/ˈsəbsədē/

noun
1. a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.

Tax subsidy (from Wiki)
Tax subsidies are also known as tax expenditures. Tax breaks are often considered to be a subsidy. Like other subsidies, they distort the economy; but tax breaks are also less transparent, and are difficult to undo.
 
mrmarklin said:
It's not my biggest concern. That would be my grandchildren.

But every tax I pay for so called green shit is less I can give to them.:cool
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You get to choose! You can give them more money, or more habitable Earth. The former is worthless without the latter.
 
mrmarklin said:
Companies are allowed certain tax deductions for their expenses. Oil can't have them?? Most of what is described is just that. The sec 199a business deduction is available to all industries, not just fossil fuel. The so called direct subsidies expired ten years ago.

Just another lefty rant.:rolleyes
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Now, now, no need for that. The nature of subsidies and how the Feds see them is certainly problematic. The trend of presenting tax relief as a payment suggests that government views taxation as an entitlement rather than a burden, which is a perspective spin that needs to be put back in check, but this matter is just bickering over semantics, isn't it?
 
mrmarklin said:
Companies are allowed certain tax deductions for their expenses. Oil can't have them?? Most of what is described is just that. The sec 199a business deduction is available to all industries, not just fossil fuel. The so called direct subsidies expired ten years ago.

Just another lefty rant.:rolleyes
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Corporate subsidies via tax break are subsidies. A reduction of the amount they need to pay in order to maintain a profitable business model is a you-problem, not a me-problem. The point isn't to single out oil subsidies. There are some major problems with our corporate owned nation, of which no industry, including renewable energy, is exempt from. The issue I'd take with your posts is that you're far more passionate about renewable energy subsidies and you do it under the guise of a general philosophy, which is that you don't like subsidies. The fact that you've never showed anywhere near consistent distaste for subsidies across other industries is how you publicly convey a false position. Your actual position appears to be; I hate hippie things, so it's enter-2000-words-here-about-how-much-I-hate-hippie-subsidies, then it's enter-five-words-here-about-other-subsidies-to-check-the-bare-minimum-appearance-box-and-give-a-false-impression-of-consistency.
 
Eldritch said:
It is not, because those directional fundamentals do not change, as they are fundamental concepts. A particular political party, who shall remain nameless and of which I am not a member, may be failing to live up to those principals, but that of course is exactly what I said.

:dunno
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But they have changed. The evidence is all there if somebody bothers to look.
 
cfives said:
Special interests and corporations are parasites feeding off of us, so why should we expect to be saved by them. From my perspective, 1st world expectations of availability and consumption, should be revised before 2nd, and 3rd world peeps expect to just hop onto the gravy train! I am a pessimist in general, but do think that a drastic reduction of amenities among 1st world citizens will be seen by my generation.
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We shouldn't expect them, we should force them to not shit where we eat. Metaphorically speaking.

Sure, as Nation States first world country should lead by example. European countries is a mix bag. U.S. failing miserably.

As I said all this talk about individuals doing right thing doesn't take structural issues in to consideration. Let's take recycling. We are told to recycle, recycle, but what is ignored?

Petrochemical corporations pushed for that stupid recycling logo, and some number system. So they can produce more and more plastic packaging. Then pushed the messaging to consumer that it is their responsibility to recycle.

Reality most of the packaging is not recyclable in practice. Basically anything with a number above 3. That shit just ends up in landfill or our Oceans. Even lower number stuff ends up there, now that China told U.S. to fuck off.

So with this one neat trick plastic producers were able to push more and more plastics on to consumers, absolve themselves or responsibility, and not invest in to research in to how actually make them recyclable or decompose in to something harmless. While consumer has a choice of either use their products, or not participate in modern society. In reality not much of a choice.
 
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