Police-type air horn legality

[derache123]

I recently purchased an ex-police 2015 BMW R1200RT-P. The bike still has the siren loudspeakers mounted on the crash bars, but the wiring to them has been disconnected to disable siren functionality. Unfortunately, this also means that I now have no horn since police RT-Ps did not come with a normal horn, only the air horn which I assume would use the siren loudspeakers.

Since I want a usable horn, I'm wondering whether it would be legal to reconnect some of the loudspeaker wiring such that the air horn is functional again, but not the siren. It seems that this would be much easier than installing a stock horn, since I don't believe the RT-P comes with any of the stock wiring to support that.

According to this section of the CVC, it doesn't seem to be explicitly illegal, but I'm not sure if I'm interpreting that correctly.

 

[ST Guy]

A horn of any type should be legal. A siren is not legal for civilian use.

 

[Kornholio]

Just out of curiosity, did you buy it from a dealer or was it a private party sale?

 

[derache123]

A horn of any type should be legal. A siren is not legal for civilian use.

And this includes the police-style air horn?

Just out of curiosity, did you buy it from a dealer or was it a private party sale?

I purchased it from an out of state dealer and had it shipped here.

 

[NorCalBusa]

For the electronic "air horn" sound to work, the siren amplifier needs to be intact and connected to power/ground, the horn switch and a 100w speaker. It is simple wiring made easy with factory accessory wiring. I can't speak to what remains after whoever built/decommissioned it. It would be a fun rainy weather task to figure it out and get it sorted. If electronically inclined- go for it. Paying a shop $150/hour to go down that rabbit hole won't be fun...for you. Might be better to simply "add" a circuit for the over-the-counter 12v horn.

The bike is built ready and shipped with a conventional motorcycle horn- a DOT requirement to import the bike to the US. The outfitter removed it and went with just the electronic horn...because they can.

 

[bojangle]

For the electronic "air horn" sound to work, the siren amplifier needs to be intact and connected to power/ground, the horn switch and a 100w speaker. It is simple wiring made easy with factory accessory wiring. I can't speak to what remains after whoever built/decommissioned it. It would be a fun rainy weather task to figure it out and get it sorted. If electronically inclined- go for it. Paying a shop $150/hour to go down that rabbit hole won't be fun...for you. Might be better to simply "add" a circuit for the over-the-counter 12v horn.

The bike is built ready and shipped with a conventional motorcycle horn- a DOT requirement to import the bike to the US. The outfitter removed it and went with just the electronic horn...because they can.

You sure about that for BMW? I'm pretty sure BMW installs the lights, siren, air horn at the factory on the police model bikes. Our aftermarket installer only had to install the radio equipment...and camera...and radar, if the bikes are so equipped.

 

[NorCalBusa]

You sure about that for BMW? I'm pretty sure BMW installs the lights, siren, air horn at the factory on the police model bikes. Our aftermarket installer only had to install the radio equipment...and camera...and radar, if the bikes are so equipped.

BMW does add lights and likely the siren at the factory- but often agencies have outfitters do more or change things. Kinda like fire engines- everyone wants custom this or that. Even cops??? LOL. No way to tell what this guy got or how it came without pulling things apart (and that's waaay back in my rearview mirror).

OP- there's a great outfitter in Belmont, near you; Priority1. Give them a shout and see if they can assess things and get you a quote- I suspect around 1 arm and 2 legs.

 

[cheez]

It'd be pretty simple to find the wires where they lead to the sirens and re-route them to tie into a Stebel or similar mounted somewhere discreet.

 

[derache123]

For the electronic "air horn" sound to work, the siren amplifier needs to be intact and connected to power/ground, the horn switch and a 100w speaker. It is simple wiring made easy with factory accessory wiring. I can't speak to what remains after whoever built/decommissioned it. It would be a fun rainy weather task to figure it out and get it sorted. If electronically inclined- go for it. Paying a shop $150/hour to go down that rabbit hole won't be fun...for you. Might be better to simply "add" a circuit for the over-the-counter 12v horn.

The bike is built ready and shipped with a conventional motorcycle horn- a DOT requirement to import the bike to the US. The outfitter removed it and went with just the electronic horn...because they can.

You sure about that for BMW? I'm pretty sure BMW installs the lights, siren, air horn at the factory on the police model bikes. Our aftermarket installer only had to install the radio equipment...and camera...and radar, if the bikes are so equipped.

Based on my research at least, I believe bojangle is correct. As far as I am aware, neither the camhead/hexhead nor wethead RT-Ps came from the factory with a stock horn or any of the factory wiring for a stock horn. Most others who have purchased a late model decommissioned RT-P seem to also have run into this issue.

As far as whether the wiring is intact enough to easily be able to restore the electronic air horn functionality, after speaking to the dealer who sold me the bike, I believe it is, so I will be spending some free time fiddling around with this. What I'm most interested in, however, is not how difficult it would be to restore the air horn, but whether such a thing would be legal in the first place. Not worth my time trying to fix the air horn if I end up getting pulled over the first time I use it on the street.

 

[NorCalBusa]

It'd be pretty simple to find the wires where they lead to the sirens and re-route them to tie into a Stebel or similar mounted somewhere discreet.

If it's from a siren amp (as Dave suggests) it's sending an audio signal- not 12v.

 

[bojangle]

Based on my research at least, I believe bojangle is correct. As far as I am aware, neither the camhead/hexhead nor wethead RT-Ps came from the factory with a stock horn or any of the factory wiring for a stock horn. Most others who have purchased a late model decommissioned RT-P seem to also have run into this issue.

As far as whether the wiring is intact enough to easily be able to restore the electronic air horn functionality, after speaking to the dealer who sold me the bike, I believe it is, so I will be spending some free time fiddling around with this. What I'm most interested in, however, is not how difficult it would be to restore the air horn, but whether such a thing would be legal in the first place. Not worth my time trying to fix the air horn if I end up getting pulled over the first time I use it on the street.

CVC 27000
(a) A motor vehicle, when operated upon a highway, shall be equipped with a horn in good working order and capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than 200 feet, but no horn shall emit an unreasonably loud or harsh sound. An authorized emergency vehicle may be equipped with, and use in conjunction with the siren on that vehicle, an air horn that emits sounds that do not comply with the requirements of this section.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=27000.

I'm not sure if an air horn qualifies as "an unreasonably loud or harsh sound", but given that the code specifically exempts emergency vehicles, you may be onto something here.

 

[NorCalBusa]

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=27000.

I'm not sure if an air horn qualifies as "an unreasonably loud or harsh sound", but given that the code specifically exempts emergency vehicles, you may be onto something here.

I suspect the air horn reference in 27700 above refers to the Grover Air Horn- the one or two trumpet horn(s) made just for fire engines some 40 years ago and since. They are on about fire engine made since then. Distinct "rasty" sound to them.

 

[Kornholio]

I purchased it from an out of state dealer and had it shipped here.

Ah okay. If it was an in-state dealer, I was going to say I'm almost certain there's laws on the books that state that they have to sell it to you with all safety items functional. IANAL, though...

 

[NorCalBusa]

OP- the siren amp that drives the electronic air horn was likely stripped before turned in, and is illegal to have on it in CA. You can buy similar amps that do the electronic air horn sound, a PA function, and maybe some goofy other sounds/tones- figure $175ish. You'll need a waterproof motorcycle speaker as well- another $150ish. Then the install work & whatever wiring.

 

[ST Guy]

So, will the electronic horn be as loud as a good aftermarket horn? Even an aftermarket air horn (which is legal)?

 

[NorCalBusa]

So, will the electronic horn be as loud as a good aftermarket horn? Even an aftermarket air horn (which is legal)?

If you are asking me (?); it depends.

The electronic air-horn amp made by the siren makers are every bit as loud as, well, the 100-watt electronic siren or air horn on a police/fire vehicle- it's the same stuff. With some models, you can run dual speakers and use 200 watts driving them. If you don't lay on that horn when you use it, I doubt it will getcha a ticket.

 

[derache123]

OP- the siren amp that drives the electronic air horn was likely stripped before turned in, and is illegal to have on it in CA. You can buy similar amps that do the electronic air horn sound, a PA function, and maybe some goofy other sounds/tones- figure $175ish. You'll need a waterproof motorcycle speaker as well- another $150ish. Then the install work & whatever wiring.

Thanks. I believe the amp is actually still on the bike somewhere but just not wired to anything. Will have to check on that. If not, then I'll probably go the route you describe. The siren speakers are still there so I would probably just use those as well.

So, will the electronic horn be as loud as a good aftermarket horn? Even an aftermarket air horn (which is legal)?

The electronic air horns I've heard from emergency vehicles are pretty loud, so I don't think that would be an issue.

 

[novaks47]

I think it would be easier and cheaper to just add a horn. All you need is a horn, somewhere to mount it, a handlebar switch, a standard automotive relay, and some wiring.

I'm betting the amp is long gone, as they're typically an all in one unit, that has all the different sirens and tones, and an amp in one box.