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Please help my Dad understand his PG&E true-up increase

eBay Mike

eBay Mike

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Location
East Bay
Moto(s)
MT-09
Name
Mike
My Dad is trying to figure out why his true-up increased so much recently. He says he already called PG&E and spoke to someone but that didn't help. He sent me this so I can post it online:

"I'm struggling trying to figure out why PG&E true up has gone up so much.

The only thing we have changed since getting the solar in 2020 was changing the gas water heater to an electric one.

I started tracking the meter reading when I got my PTO from PG&E. From 2020 to 2023 the meter pretty much went to the PTO meter reading. Then in 2024 it jumped up about 6,000 kWhs.

Back in 2023 my true up was $313.00.
Then in 2024 it jumped up to $1,867.00.
This year it's going to be around $2,100.00.

We have not changed our heating or AC usage that much. What would cause the true-up to jump so much?"


Thank you for any ideas.
 
We had a similar issue...call for service and say you think the meter is bad!
We did this and our Bill went down 60% after they said Nothing Was Wrong!...
 
What was he paying for gas before switching to the electric hot water heater? And is it recirculating?
 
I also believe electricity is more expensive than gas.
 
ST Guy said:
I also believe electricity is more expensive than gas.
Click to expand...
Way more expensive, yes. We installed solar 2 years ago and our electric bill is now about $12/month. But added to that are AVA generation charges (no idea what that is) and a couple of other things I don't understand like different tiered NEM rates/charges.
My true up bill due in June is $327.
My guess is that the $327 is the shortfall from me selling power to PG&E and them supplying power to me but I really need to call them.

Instead of letting it accumulate why can't they put it on the bill each month? Another question for them.
 
https://help.pge.com/s/article/What-is-a-True-Up?language=en_US

After 12 months, you will receive a final statement of your billing cycle which is called a True-Up Statement. The statement provides your net energy charges and credits over the entire year and shows any final balance due.
This statement is in addition to your monthly statement which shows the amount due for that billing period including monthly minimum delivery charges. The monthly statement will also include a summary of your year-to-date solar charges and credits and how you are tracking towards True-Up.
Click to expand...
 
ST Guy said:
I also believe electricity is more expensive than gas.
Click to expand...
Most people that are installing "electric" water heaters are installing an electric heat pump water heaters, which are ~70% more efficient than gas or old-style electric and the operating cost is less than gas. YRMV

eBay Mike, did your dad install a heat pump?


My guess is that PG&E did a major rate change on what they credit your dad for his solar panels generating energy.

You know, something to pad the profits of PG&E.
 
$2100 seems "appropriate" for 6mWh, as sad as that sounds.

He needs to find the extra usage or have his meter diagnosed.

The PGE online portal should be able to show his usage down to the hour. Should be straight forward enough to see if there's something wrong by intentionally shutting things off for certain intervals, or looking at usage overnight. The "idle" energy usage of the house should be really low.

He can start methodically flipping off breakers for a few hours and watch the resulting change.
 
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Lights_Guy3 said:
$2100 seems "appropriate" for 6mWh, as sad as that sounds.

He needs to find the extra usage or have his meter diagnosed.

The PGE online portal should be able to show his usage down to the hour. Should be straight forward enough to see if there's something wrong by intentionally shutting things off for certain intervals, or looking at usage overnight. The "idle" energy usage of the house should be really low.
Click to expand...
This for sure.

Log on to your dad's PG&E account and look at his energy usage. PG&E has data that you can access down to the hour of a given day. It also lets you look at year to year comparisons. When you look at the bar graphs on the website, note whether the bars are solid, meaning that they represent data sent by the meter, or if they are shaded, meaning that PG&E doesn't have data for that period and is just estimating it based on past usage.

Look at the meter reading and compare it to the reading on the bill. Does it look right? There will be a time delay between the meter reading and the bill's reading, so don't expect two week old meter numbers from the bill to match the meter on the day you look at it.

Did your dad's solar company include a usage meter package so that he can track usage independent from PG&E's meter? If so, take a look at old bills through the current one and see if the usage on the solar company's app tracks that on PG&E's bills.

If you installed a heat pump hot water heater, there will be a jump in electricity usage that is offset by a reduction of gas usage. But because gas usage is paid for monthly, your dad is unlikely to notice the reduction in gas cost. OTOH, if he installed an electric water heater, then he will still save on gas cost, but the electric bill will jump painfully.

Most heat pump water heaters have different operating modes including one where they don't use the compressor. Make sure the water heater is in the most economical mode if he wants to save energy. He will have a longer recovery time, but it will be necessary if he wants to get close to break even with a gas water heater. As noted above, if he has a hot water recirc pump, that is a potential energy hog as it increases the hot water demand.

Flip
 
It's also possible there's an issue with his solar and it's not producing.
 
Not producing enough solar.

We have a true-up every fucking year. The only way for us to mitigate it is to get a battery back-up. But I'm not spending thousands to save hundreds. It wouldn't pay for itself in under 15-years. Buy that point, we'd probably sell the home before then. So what's the point.

FUCK PG&E.
 
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I know my solar panels don't output enough but it's damn near impossible to find someone that is willing to work with swapping them rather than tear everything off and sell a whole new system.

Solar is becoming like the new used car dealership scummy sales BS.
 
As said before. PG&E is going to get you anyway possible to pay for their lawsuits. True-up is the Gavin Newsom of PG&E. Now smile and take it. (I am one of you.)
 
mikev said:
I know my solar panels don't output enough but it's damn near impossible to find someone that is willing to work with swapping them rather than tear everything off and sell a whole new system.

Solar is becoming like the new used car dealership scummy sales BS.
Click to expand...
If all you want to do is swap new panels in, any roofer can probably do that? You’ll need to make sure your inverter setup will support that.
 
eBay Mike said:
My Dad is trying to figure out why his true-up increased so much recently. He says he already called PG&E and spoke to someone but that didn't help. He sent me this so I can post it online:

"I'm struggling trying to figure out why PG&E true up has gone up so much.

The only thing we have changed since getting the solar in 2020 was changing the gas water heater to an electric one.

I started tracking the meter reading when I got my PTO from PG&E. From 2020 to 2023 the meter pretty much went to the PTO meter reading. Then in 2024 it jumped up about 6,000 kWhs.

Back in 2023 my true up was $313.00.
Then in 2024 it jumped up to $1,867.00.
This year it's going to be around $2,100.00.

We have not changed our heating or AC usage that much. What would cause the true-up to jump so much?"


Thank you for any ideas.
Click to expand...
Hey Mike-

Armchair quarterback here in this area.. Love nerding out on this sort of stuff. It could be a myriad of things but settles out into one of the few:

1. Solar not producing enough
2. Using more power than you expect
3. Cost of power going up.

We can download your PGE usage over the past few years and likely link it to your solar data to see where things aren't lining up. 2024->2025 seems what I'd expect. Power rates went up 5x last year. 2023->2024.... that's steep.
 
PG&E is killing us retired folks on fixed income! Solar would help if we had an electric furnace for a $20K upgrade and if we had W-2 earning for a solar tax write break. Guess were just screwed :unsure:
 
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