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'08 Ninja 250: Real World 1st Trackday Impression Report - Finally! (Long)

Gary J

New member
Joined
Nov 29, 2002
Location
South Bay
Moto(s)
Street & Track
Name
Gary
'08 Ninja 250: Real World 1st Trackday Impression Report - Finally! (Long)

Decided to branch out and start a new thread on the finally-forthcoming first trackday impressions report on the new ’08 Ninja 250. The reason for the fresh thread being that the originally started one had gotten way off the planned course by the less-then-ideal events that ended the day prematurely. This fresh thread should allow for focusing exclusively on a discussion of the bike, and its testing of the waters in the track environment.

Hope you enjoy!

Gary J

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It should first be noted that the “Old-Gen” (’88-’07) Ninja 250 reference points that I was carrying into this Infineon trackday, for comparing the performance of a completely stock ’08 Ninja 250’s performance out on track, are purely from time spent riding/racing on fairly heavily modified track-only/race bikes. Those bikes all had race bodywork, aftermarket shock and front suspension mods, raised rearsets, and some level of expensive internal engine modifications (as much as 35’ish RWHP). The majority of that experience was on a bike with expensive 17” “weld-up” conversion wheels, allowing running modern radial race-compound rubber at both ends.

With my only “on-track” experiences with the “Old-Gen” Ninja 250’s being on machines that were far from stock, it was admittedly difficult to set realistic expectations for performance on a totally unmodified streetbike version of the ’08 bike. With that warning stated up front in this report, please take the “did it measure” up perspective with a good-sized grain of salt.

Preamble info on status of equipment on ’08 Ninja 250 ridden:

  • Suspension: Stock, with shock preload set at #3 setting
    Tires: Dunlop GT-501 “bias-ply”
    Tire condition: Front- New on trackday, Rear – @1,000 hard street miles
    Brakes: Front - Newly replaced “EBC” HH-Sintered pads, Rear – stock pads
    All other items: Totally showroom stock

To try to make it easy for interested readers to review each of the key elements of a bike’s performance, I’ll present the evaluation in a bulleted , itemized format, with supportive content following each heading. Hopefully that makes it easy to either read, or skim only to topics of interest ….. as each reader may choose.

Power/Acceleration:

For those that had read the earlier “Part 1-4 Real World Ride Reports” on life on the ’08 Ninja 250 in the street environment, you will recall that despite a sensation of a bit less “peak HP” (upper RPM range), that the superior mid-range (7K-10K) “grunt” of the motor in the new model bike resulted in the power delivery being superior for this form of real world riding. The tighter, less opportunity for WFO throttle riding … of even the best of the twisty public roads ….created a environment where the 26’ish HP of the little bike didn’t leave me as a rider feeling all that “inadequate”. It did the job, for the conditions, just fine.

Turn the page to the wide open spaces of the track, with the full width of the paved surface devoted exclusively to going in one direction, at unrestricted speeds, and the feeling of “inadequacy” of the 26’ish HP of the ’08 Ninja 250 is impossible to ignore. Of course the modified “Old-Gen” bikes that I’d had on the track had been far from white-knucklers when it came to acceleration, but the totally stock ’08 machine definitely increased that sensation of “who threw out the anchor?”

In the first ½ of the day, there weren’t any noticeable winds out on track. As a result; though the bike certainly was getting out-pulled in every straight by 99% of the other machines on the track, it did seem that maintaining good corner-exit speed kept it pretty manageable. Unfortunately the afternoon winds of Infineon reared their heads, in the form of very strong North/South (blowing from Turn 7, back towards Turn 6 – “The Carousel”) directional gusts.

The two areas where the little Ninja was absolutely killed on acceleration (as a result of these winds) were heading out of the last turn (Turn 11) …; for the run up the front straight, and even moreso, in the uphill stretch heading out of “The Carousel”, on the long climb back to Turn 7. Watching how painfully slow the speedometer was climbing, as the bike struggled to pull the bike past the 75MPH+ range, I initially had the impression that there might be something going south inside the engine. I swear it felt almost like someone had pulled off one (of only two) sparkplug wires! Only reason I knew there was nothing wrong with the engine causing the sluggish acceleration, was the fact that the bike pulled just fine everywhere on track that wasn’t running into the strong headwind.

When you’ve only got 26HP to start with, giving up 10HP to wind resistance is not something that goes unnoticed, as it would on a 600cc, 100HP+ machine. When other bikes were blowing on past each lap in this section, I was sure they were saying in their helmets, “man, why doesn’t that slowpoke get on the gas?”



Handling:

The geometry of the bike with the currently mounted tire sizes, and setup of the rear preload (“sag”), made for a nice combination of stability in the corners, as well as a willingness to turn-in nicely, and hold the target line all the way through the turns. There was none of the “flexy-flyer” chassis feel that must be an accepted evil when riding one of the “Old-Gen” machines at speed. The only shortcoming came in the form of a little less feedback then ideal from the tires, and the firm, but low-tech suspension transmitting more of the pavement irregularities into the chassis then ideal for a track-based bike.


Suspension:

There’s no comparison on the track-readiness of the suspension (front and rear) on the ’08 bike, as compared to a totally “stock suspended” “Old-Gen” machine. The springs are definitely stiff enough to prevent ever bottoming out either end, not matter the pace; at least with my 170lb. rider weight aboard.

Being low-tech “damping rod” fork technology, the expected excessive high-speed compression damping resulted in some momentary traction losses anytime the bike crossed over irregular pavement sections, while leaned over. One of the most noticeable areas, was going through the off-camber, downhill, Turn 4. You really had to let the bike work gingerly over the bumpy surface on exit, and run nearly all the way to the candystripe curbing, to keep the tires from chattering away and losing grip to the point of getting you in trouble.

The line I was taking must have looked odd to some, as the wide exit, as compared to the actual cornering speed, was definitely a mis-match for a well hooking up regular suspended sportbike.

Even in totally stock form, the front forks were definitely up to the task of resisting excessive bottoming-out diving, no matter how hard I got on the brakes. I was ultimately able to brake later, at the end of the steep downhill run to the AMA Turn 9/9a bus-stop, then any other bike I encountered all day in the “B-Group” where I was riding the Ninja 250.

The rebound damping on the forks could be a bit slower, to improve the ability to come smoothly back off the front brakes, when easing in towards the apex of corners. This was especially true on the hard-braking approach turns … like Turn 11, for example. I found it required a very delicate touch to keep a fine balance between enough trail-braking to keep the front forks from over-extending and causing the bike to run wide, without overloading the limited grip of the front tire and tossing it away. Managed to do that smoothly all day, without any moments during those transitions, so it was obviously do-able.


Braking:

I’d been very impressed with the “one-finger” braking that I’d found was possible on the new bike, from the very first street ride. As a result of taking full advantage of the good front brake during the 4K street miles before heading to the track, I found it necessary to replace the almost-gone pads before heading up to Infineon. Having had good luck with EBC (brand) “HH Sintered” pads in the past, over the course of nearly 90K miles on the “Old-Gen” Ninja 250, I had purchased a set for replacements to the OEM pads on the new bike. Unfortunately I was quite surprised to find that the initial bite of the EBC pads fell WAY short of the OEM pads! The EBC’s would get the bike slowed down effectively, but it really took a lot more physical lever pull pressure, to get the job done. I’ll leave the current set in until they eventually are worn and need replacement, but am going to ante-up for the more expensive OEM pads, next time around. Who’d have thunk that stock OEM pads, on a $3,500 “beginners-bike”, would be so good from Kawasaki?

Not that the rear brake gets all that much use for actual slowing of the bike, but it does seem to be quite linear in its rate of grip; thus allowing a nice resource for “chassis settling” chores on some corner entrances (like Turn 6, “The Carousel”), and mild line adjustments (tightening) mid-corner, if needed.


Ground Clearance:

This has got to be the #1 strength of the ’08 Ninja 250, over the “Old-Gen”! Despite getting around the track at a reasonable respectable pace on my track, and racebikes, I’ve never been known to be a big “kneepuck dragger”. A very light touchdown at corner entry (to set lean angle), followed by bringing the leg in just slightly to keep it barely skimming (or not even touching) the pavement, is typical. Despite this style, I normally do get a puck down a few times on every lap, on my other bikes. On the ’08 Ninja 250, with the extremely high footpegs, and narrow chassis, I found very few instances all day where I actually touched down. Going down the hill through “The Carousel”, where there’s a bit of a G-Out towards the bottom of the hill, was the only spot where I saw any serious puck-to-pavement contact. Even then, it was only on about 20% of the total laps run during the day.

Of course my recognition of the limitations of grip of the tires on the bike (especially the 1K street-cycled rear), caused me to consciously limit the maximum lean angle that I used all day, to a lot less then I’d use on any normal trackday/racebike that I’ve ridden, with pure race-compound rubber. Gotta ride within the limitations of the weakest link in your equipment.


Tires/Grip:

As was previously mentioned at the start of this report, the tires on the bike were low-buck, DOT street version Dunlop GT-501 bias-ply skins. Generally these are quite capable tires to get up to decent speed at the track (from past experience). However my error in the case of taking the bike to the track, was not recognizing that the performance of these tires is directly proportional to their “newness”.

The front worked great! It got sticky, never slipped a single time; whether under tail-wagging, white-knuckle braking, or pushing the front end very hard at the apex of the turns.

The rear however ……… oh the rear!!! That was truly the “Achilles Heel” of trying to ring out the potential performance of the bike all day. Every time I raised the bar on cornering loads to the “fun level”, I was handed a rude wake-up call from the rear tire, in the form of a not-so-stoppable “slide”. The worst places for this behavior, in order of “badness”, were as follows:

  • 1) Worst:: Turn 6 – “The Carousel” On a number of laps I really gave a good show to the bikes behind me, weith the back end of the bike breaking traction, and drifting-and-sliding outward, in a style that was totally reminiscent of riding on a slick track surface in the rain! On at least one lap, it REALLY got out there, almost to a level of being “flattrack” style. Fortunately having put in more miles on wet pavement at speed over the years, on and off the track, allowed it to be managed OK. Not real enjoyable to have to nurse the bike through the turns with so little confidence in rear tire grip all day, in these sections, but you gotta take the cards you’re dealt, and play them to the best of your ability.

    2) 2nd Worst: Turn 2 – The gentle rise cresting the hill here often resulted in the rear tire signing off for 1-to-1 traction, requiring some delicate body English, throttle control, and steering input, to keep things going in the desired direction. On one worst-case lap, the rear tire let loose traction, and refused to regain it long enough, that a straightening up of the bike was required to get things under control. The quickly ending pavement on the compromised line, did result in a momentary “off-pavement” line along the dirt a few feet outside the turn.. Not a huge moment (as an ex-Moto-X’er), but definitely NOT something I was proud of, or going to allow to happen again the rest of the day. I stuck to that commitment, and kept things clean in Turn 2 the rest of the day.

    3) Exit of Turn 9a (lefthand portion of the AMA “Bus-Stop”) - I found that if I tried to square off the finish of the exit from this turn, the traction threshold of the sickly rear tire would consistently be exceeded. The result being the need to ease up on the throttle roll-on, and slightly straighten the bike up to regain grip and directional control. It was so predictable that it became very manageable, but was frustrating in that it really forced losing the little drive that a 26HP bike already was limited to, coming out of a tight, speed-eating turn like 9/9a.


Lap Times:

I never had any kind of timing device in place during the event, which was all good, as I had no desire to really press the limits at a trackday.. The objective of taking the bike out there to Infineon, being to have a little fun on the new bike, and get a better feel about the good and bad characteristics, when the conditions allowed for it to be ridden in much less restricted (by laws, traffic, etc) environment.

As such, I really don’t know what the best times on the day were (?). The must-respect limitations that the tires (mostly “rear”) presented, the mixed traffic of a B-Group trackday environment, and the strong winds that were out there during the portion of the day where becoming more adjusted to the bike would have otherwise likely netted the best laps, probably kept things at a far less then spectacular level …….even for a 26HP Ninja 250.

Out of the 45’ish+ (?) bikes that were out on the track during the “B-Group” sessions (where I rode the Ninja 250), based on the passing/being passed ratio that I saw happening over the course of the 5 full sessions ridden over the course of the day, I’d guesstimate that the little bike was running lap times that would have put it in the top 20% or so of those out on track (?). No big deal either way, as it was a non-competitive trackday (not a race), but it did seem the littlest Kawasaki didn’t embarrass itself too badly amongst the sea of big-brother machines that were out there sharing the track.

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Conclusion:

As many may already know, despite all the good-times that were had on the maiden (and likely last) trackday voyage of the little Ninja 250, the day ended early, and not on the best of notes.

So the final questions may be asked:

  • 1) “What were your overall impressions on running the new ’08 Ninja 250 out there at the track”?

    2) “Would you recommend a ’08 Ninja 250 as a trackday mount for other riders”?

The answers?

  • 1) It was sweet-n-sour experience (as I knew it would be).

    The sweet being that the bike itself is a TON of fun to ride around “the track” (the raw track itself). The sour being that running out on track on a bike that is between 75-125HP down on the majority of other bikes that make-up the core group of machines in the “B-Group”, despite the compatibility (and eligibility) in quantitative laptimes, creates a potentially dangerous “oil-n-water” mixture.

    Despite the best intentions of the little and big bike riders, the two different styles of riding that are mandated by the highly contrasting style of machines, unfortunately results in a volatile soil for “bad things” to potentially happen. Just my opinion, from first-hand experience while putting in track laps on the little Ninja 250’s, on a number of occasions.


    2) No. As much as I LOVE these little Ninja 250’s, my past opinion has not changed, in that I would NOT recommend this bike to other riders that are weighing their decisions on selecting a bike to be used for riding at the highly attended trackday events that we typically see here in California.

    Having enough power on tap in their bike to not have the bike itself become an absolutely blank-n-white limitation (throttle pinned, and having bikes blow past at’ 50MPH+ speed differentials) on speed, when trying to blend in (for safety) with the flow of most other bikes that a rider will be out sharing the track with, is an important “tool” that’s missing for a Ninja 250 pilot. You could put in a dozen trackdays, and not have a single unfortunate “incident”, despite this "David-Goliath" factor, but every time out there it’s truly a roll-of-the-dice. Eventually, the odds are the roll will come up snake-eyes (hopefully it doesn't, for any that elect to take the "little bike" path).

All the above is presented purely as “One Rider’s Opinion”, in a FWIW fashion. To each their own in bike and riding choices. If your experiences or impression differ, that's totally cool too, as it's always a "Whatever works for you, is best" kind of thing. :thumbup

Hope this real world, first-hand, post-trackday report on the new ’08 Ninja 250 (first serious “track-only” report I’ve seen anywhere in the motorcycle press community?), was of interest to at least a few of you.

Happy riding! :ride
 
Ahh, the long awaited, highly anticipated write up. Nice and balanced! :thumbup I had considered tracking my mostly stock older gen 250 in C group for shits and giggles, but after seeing some of the speed differentials, and reading this... I think the cons outwiegh the pro's. Having a marginal rear must have driven you nuts! Not that it's going to spin up under hard acceleration, but not being able to capitalize on the biggest advantage of a smaller bike (greater corner speed) must have been frustrating to say the least. Again, well written, thanks!
 
Fantastic stuff, thanks for taking the time to write all of this up! I absolutely love your reviews.

Thanks for keeping your usual length, even with a hole in your hand ;)
 
Thanks for mentioning the fact that the speed differential makes it not the safest bike to ride on teh track with other riders on bigger bikes. I didn't want to mention that in your other thread due to the circumstances but its refreshing to hear you pass on that advice. I donn't think that it makes it any more your fault but you know I couldn't help but think that contributed. Anyways(change the subject) its great to hear that it makes an excellent street bike. I think its great that they are making a cooler looking bike that newbies won't feel so self conscious about buying and the fact that they upgraded the suspension and brakes to inspire more confidence is even better :thumbup......too bad about all the price gouging but in the next year or so I'd bet it will all settle and we'll see a lot less riders buying the bigger bikes just based on looks.
 
Thanks for mentioning the fact that the speed differential makes it not the safest bike to ride on teh track with other riders on bigger bikes.

I don't think I've ever heard gary recommend one as a track bike for the reasons he details above.

There was a guy at thill who was on a 250 when I was up there and man, it was bad in the straights...but it felt good to pass someone on the motor on an SV as well. :laughing
 
I don't think I've ever heard gary recommend one as a track bike for the reasons he details above
It's kind of a shame that very low HP bikes like the Ninja 250 end up in this "fish out of water" role (in my personal opinion) for track event activities. This role not being due to an incompatibility between the bike and racetrack ....... but only due to its mis-match with the mainstream (bigger-bore) machines that make up the core of equipment seen in our local trackday environment. If it weren't for that factor, the little bikes would be a great option for a tool to be used for many virgin trackday rider's first experiences.

During the times I've had the opportunity to be out there on track (250P races) when the only other bikes were a bunch of fellow 30'ish HP 250's, it's a totally different story! Riding the 250 at those moments is a total ear-to-ear grinning hoot!!! :ride

It's a ton-of-fun to be riding together side-by-side with a bunch of other bikes that also have the throttle pinned to the stops, 90% of the time, while looking over at each other with a "thumbs-up", in killing time waiting to get to the end of the long straights. Nothing to do but wait to reach the end ........ in eager anticipation of diving back into the fun of carving up the next set of corners again .... on the little bikes! :thumbup

Thinking about the folks down south at Willow Springs that are renting the fleet of track-prepped '08 Ninja 250's, paints an interesting picture of what a fun day it'd be to get a bunch of friends together and have a dedicated day (or sessions) with everyone mounted atop near-identical little bikes. Kind of a mini IROC thing, but on the little Ninja 250's. Probably never happen, but it is fun to just fantasize. :)
 
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It's a ton-of-fun to be riding together side-by-side with a bunch of other bikes that also have the throttle pinned to the stops 90% of the time, while looking over at each other with a "thumbs-up", in killing time waiting to get to the end of the long straights. Nothing to do but wait to reach the end ........ in eager anticipation of diving back into the fun of carving up the next set of corners again .... on the little bikes! :thumbup

Thinking about the folks down south at Willow Springs that are renting the fleet of track-prepped '08 Ninja 250's, paints an interesting picture of what a fun day it'd be to get a bunch of friends together and have a dedicated day (or sessions) with everyone mounted atop near-identical little bikes. Kinda of a mini IROC thing, but on the little Ninja 250's. Probably never happen, but it is fun to just fantasize. :)

That sounds really, really damn awesome...just like the morning ride on the track? :rofl

Running a stock engined SV I can definantly sympathize with the 250 riders, there is absolutely no way I would want less engine, and that has a lot to do with why I'm riding an SV rather than a 250 for my first season of racing.
 
Nice writeup, Gary. You got some ballz to go out onto a track with the stock tires on. I wouldn't be able to do it! Will you be racing the 08? Is anyone in AFM racing an 08 yet? I'm planning on the October round at Buttonwillow. I know I'll get spanked by your 35HP monster-bikes, but will still be a blast :)
 
Nice writeup, Gary. You got some ballz to go out onto a track with the stock tires on. I wouldn't be able to do it! Will you be racing the 08? Is anyone in AFM racing an 08 yet? I'm planning on the October round at Buttonwillow. I know I'll get spanked by your 35HP monster-bikes, but will still be a blast :)

Those STOCK tires are what people were putting on the classics for their trackdays :)
 
Will you be racing the 08? Is anyone in AFM racing an 08 yet?
My current '08 Ninja 250 was acquired for the sole purpose of being a weekend backroad riding with friends kind of machine. It taking the place of the '00 model it shares the garage with; that's just turned over 90K miles. :shocker

Unfortunately the 250 Production grids haved really thinned down this year at the AFM events. I believe the last AFM race at T-Hill only had about 5-6 bikes taking the checkered flag.

So far I don't believe any of the '08 machines have been spotted out on the grid at any of the AFM races this season (no suprise, with the bike's asking price, and current availability). There is one experienced, and well sponsored rider that had been heard to have plans on bringing out an '08 machine to the AFM this year. So far however, it's been a no-show.


I'm planning on the October round at Buttonwillow. I know I'll get spanked by your 35HP monster-bikes, but will still be a blast :)

There's no question that a totally stock engine '08 machine will get its butt badly handed to it in all of the straights at BW, by any of the fully-built 35+HP old-gen machines.

However due to the small grids, and retirement from the class by many of the past top-runners, there's only a couple of remaining fast-guys showing up on these days. These are the only folks that'd have the skills to make what they'd gain in the straights, continue to stick in the corners ....... against even a very experieced rider on one of the good handling '08 bikes.

Tell you what Richard, if you'd be so inclined to bring along an extra '08 rental machine from So-Cal, on the October BW race weekend, I might just be inclined to come on out and join you .... to add a little extra '08 green-machine action to the festivities. :thumbup
 
Gary, I got this program rolling to fill the grids down here. I think we can do the same for AFM. I'll be contacting the powers that be regarding being a vendor at the Oct BW round, so pencil yourself in for a rental! I'll keep you updated. Thanks for the interest.
 
Pete did bring the '08 250 out the last round at Thill. I wasn't there to see it since I have retired for the year, but saw him in the results. FYI.

Richard, bring a few of them to Bwillow. It would be a preview for next year.

Craig
 
Gary, may I ask just what you did to the old gen engine to get 35hp out of it? Just how expensive would that be to do?
 
Gary, may I ask just what you did to the old gen engine to get 35hp out of it? Just how expensive would that be to do?
The bike I rode that had the full engine build for AFM 250P racing, was not my own. It was a bike that I was provided to use for a few races last season.

As for the modifications done to build the front-running Ninja 250 engines in the AFM, as used by many racers over the last few years, it's been quite extensive ...... and EXPENSIVE! The rules had very little restriction on "internal" engine modifications, and hence the engine builders went wild.

- Major head porting work
- Pistons
- Rods
- Crank mods
- more

The end result was a bill for $3,500-$4,000 for the total parts/labor for a fresh engine build to those 35HP+ front-running bike specs. Not exactly in keeping with the concept of an inexpensive class to start out in racing, as many perceived "250 Production" to be, but that's the way it is (for 2008).

Of course it wasn't a "requirement" to spend that kind of money on a built motor, just to enter the class and race. However anyone with a serious goal of finishing on the podium, was pretty much obligated to go with the "built" motor, to keep from getting badly gapped in all the straights. There's only so much a rider can make up in the corners, when everyone is pretty much WFO on the throttle most of the time on these bikes.

6-7HP may not seem like much, but on a Ninja 250, it represents nearly a 25% HP advantage (equivalent to a 25HP gain in a 600 class), and materializes as a huge difference out on track.
 
OMG that must be a blast to ride! Yeah 7hp difference in a bike that light is VERY noticeable.

PS--Your cat needs a treadmill.:laughing
 
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