Questions for Keith Code - Round Two

[abhijitz]

Thanks very much Keith, advise much appreciated

abhijitz,

You are asking the fox to give you advice on how to take care of chickens?

The Superbike School has four levels of training but "levels" may be the wrong word to use, it sounds like it is based on experience but that isn't how the school is structured.

Each of the levels from 1 through 3 is an exact set of specific technical skills that are grouped by how they relate to one another. Each level is a package of 5 of these technical riding skills. Level 4 is a tailored, custom program based on what specific difficulties the rider is having with integrating his riding to his own satisfaction.

After getting a briefing on a specific tech point, your assigned coach will work with you each riding session and pinpoint the areas where you are doing well with each of the drills and where you want or need to improve them.

Hope to see you at The Streets, it is one of our favorite training tracks.

Keith

 

[Keith Code]

Short answer? Get a 600.

Keith

 

[Keith Code]

Stuck on lines



For the track day riders:

Has anyone else noticed how easy it is to get stuck riding lines that aren't quite what you really want?

I'm talking about going through a section and finding yourself on the same or very similar line over and over. You might even notice that other riders are running different (or what you think is a better line than your own if they smoke you) lines but something just holds you back from being able to change your own line???

I had a couple of good rides this last tour we did back East. I had fun going as quick as I care to go and this item came up in some sections both at Mid Ohio and VIR.

I'm still trying to improve my riding even after 51 years of doing it.

If anyone has some specific tracks or turns or sections of tracks where this happens, let me know...who knows what we can figure out.

Keith

 

[Jet City]

Keith,

I've been looking for advice on braking/turn set up on my new 2008 CBR1000RR. The seat is sloped with a low/narrow tank and I am finding that I am putting way too much weight on the bars under braking. Someone suggested putting Stomp Grip on my tank and squeeze it while braking. To me, this is contradictory to what I have been taught (by you) of moving my body to the inside prior to braking, as braking and then moving my body will only upset the bike. I know Miguel and Neal have modified tank covers where they can rest their chest which takes a lot of weight off the bars.

Bottom line, am I/we right or is the "squeeze the tank" guy right?

 

[Z3n]

For the track day riders:

Has anyone else noticed how easy it is to get stuck riding lines that aren't quite what you really want?

I'm talking about going through a section and finding yourself on the same or very similar line over and over. You might even notice that other riders are running different (or what you think is a better line than your own if they smoke you) lines but something just holds you back from being able to change your own line???

I had a couple of good rides this last tour we did back East. I had fun going as quick as I care to go and this item came up in some sections both at Mid Ohio and VIR.

I'm still trying to improve my riding even after 51 years of doing it.

If anyone has some specific tracks or turns or sections of tracks where this happens, let me know...who knows what we can figure out.

Keith

You know, the first time I read this post I tried to think through the tracks I ride regularly to where I had this problem...and totally neglected to think: The bus stop at Buttonwillow. I know there is a better line there (wide on entrance, almost running onto the service road) and I go significantly faster when I can hit that line, but there's something about that corner that makes me tense up and I always want to turn in early and never can seem to get the line just right. I've done it a few times, can get close here and there, but consistancy, despite knowing the superior line that works better for me at my pace, always seems to evade me.



Jet City,

I'm not Mr. Code, but I think i can take a crack at your question:

You're both right. Mr. Squeeze the tank has it right in that stomp grips will help you stop from sliding forward and transfering weight to your wrists, and you have it right in that your body position will be set on braking. The thing that you're not taking into account is that with stomp grips, you'll be able to hold yourself off the tank with your outside leg only under braking, and you'll still be able to bend your inside knee in to the tank if you're coming in really hard to a corner. I don't have a good picture of it, but I'll do it on the approach to some corners where I'll have my lower and upper body off to the side under braking, but I'll also have my inside knee up against the tank to help me brace until I start to roll out of the brakes, at which point my outside leg will hold me in place and my inside leg will allow me to gauge lean angle.

That's my approach to the problem. I'm curious as to if Mr. Code will have another answer that'll blow me completely out of the water...quite possible

 

[Jet City]

You know, the first time I read this post I tried to think through the tracks I ride regularly to where I had this problem...and totally neglected to think: The bus stop at Buttonwillow. I know there is a better line there (wide on entrance, almost running onto the service road) and I go significantly faster when I can hit that line, but there's something about that corner that makes me tense up and I always want to turn in early and never can seem to get the line just right. I've done it a few times, can get close here and there, but consistancy, despite knowing the superior line that works better for me at my pace, always seems to evade me.

I was taught a good trick (by Ken Hill) for the bus stop was to look waaaaaayyyy to the left on entrance. Once your brain acknowledges that there is all that track surface I stopped running wide/slow out of it. Otherwise, it seems really narrow on exit and you turn in early and then run wide.

I still don't buy the Stomp grip thing. If I move my body prior to braking and then bring my inside leg back up to the tank I think I would be all crossed up and would take an extraordinary amount of effort to bring my inside leg back out and square myself up for the turn.

And where/how would trail braking fit into this?

 

[Z3n]

I was taught a good trick (by Ken Hill) for the bus stop was to look waaaaaayyyy to the left on entrance. Once your brain acknowledges that there is all that track surface I stopped running wide/slow out of it. Otherwise, it seems really narrow on exit and you turn in early and then run wide.

Cool, I'll give it a shot, thanks! The narrowness of the track there is what really gets to me, so that makes perfect sense.

I still don't buy the Stomp grip thing. If I move my body prior to braking and then bring my inside leg back up to the tank I think I would be all crossed up and would take an extraordinary amount of effort to bring my inside leg back out and square myself up for the turn.

And where/how would trail braking fit into this?

Well, I can usually hold on with my outside leg only because once you stick to the stompgrips, you simply don't move. I will occasionally use my inside leg to brace, but most of the time, holding the tank with my outside leg and locking my outside foot into position on the footpeg so it can't move means I can pull stoppies under braking without any issues.

Trailbraking proceeds as normal. You're locked into position already, and there's no way I'm sliding around on the bike, because the stompgrips are helping hold me in place.

I honestly have difficulty riding most bikes unless they fit me just right if they don't have stompgrips. They basically allow you to hold on to the bike with one leg if you have the leg strength to do it, and it makes it much, much easier to keep yourself off the tank.

I've ridden a 08 1000RR on the street but never on the track. BP/keeping yourself off the tank on things like this can be difficult to talk about because so much of it is dependent on how you fit on the bike.

 

[Keith Code]

Keith,

I've been looking for advice on braking/turn set up on my new 2008 CBR1000RR. The seat is sloped with a low/narrow tank and I am finding that I am putting way too much weight on the bars under braking. Someone suggested putting Stomp Grip on my tank and squeeze it while braking. To me, this is contradictory to what I have been taught (by you) of moving my body to the inside prior to braking, as braking and then moving my body will only upset the bike. I know Miguel and Neal have modified tank covers where they can rest their chest which takes a lot of weight off the bars.

Bottom line, am I/we right or is the "squeeze the tank" guy right?

You can see tank grip tape even on Moto GP bikes, I noticed some on Lorenzo's bike this last GP and it does work.

Both knees up and on the tank is also, as pointed out, a good way to stay off the tank and you can do it from the hung off position with a little bit of practice.

One other point is staying as low as possible under braking. If you sit up tall in the saddle it drives your arms into the bars and that puts too much weight into them as you have already noticed.

There isn't really anything else you can do under braking to keep yourself supported and not rap the family jewels.

Oh ya, one other thing onthe tank grip material, if your legs are long you may have to put some on the bodywork or the frame just ahead or below the tank itself.

Keith

 

[Lazerus]

Jet City, the way I overcame this problem was with a set of tank grips... the ones on the side of the tank, and the one right in the center where the "crotch" would be. Get off the side of the bike early as you have said. Lock my outside leg between the tank and the foot peg, using my calf and the "grip" of the tank pad to hold it in place...

Then, my inner thigh of my outside leg goes up against the tank on the "crotch pad". That effectively forms a tripod (foot to peg, knee to side of tank, thigh to back of tank). With that anchor, all that is required is core and leg strength to support your torso.

edit: nevermind, the guru has returned

 

[Jet City]

Thanks Keith. I think I'm just too tall for this thing in it's current form. I try and stay low as you have taught me in the past, but I really have to push myself back to get into a comfortable position. As you can see in this picture on my Aprilia, I am able to use my chest to hold my position, but on the CBR, I'm just too cramped in the cockpit unless I slide my ass back and use your tripod position.

Just in case you can't put a name with a face, I'm the ugly guy next to Ben.

 

[Keith Code]

Thanks Keith. I think I'm just too tall for this thing in it's current form. I try and stay low as you have taught me in the past, but I really have to push myself back to get into a comfortable position. As you can see in this picture on my Aprilia, I am able to use my chest to hold my position, but on the CBR, I'm just too cramped in the cockpit unless I slide my ass back and use your tripod position.

Just in case you can't put a name with a face, I'm the ugly guy next to Ben.

Hey there you are, I remember.

Don't forget what I said about putting some tank grip material further down on the frame or bodywork because you are so long in the leg.

Keith

 

[Z3n]

Hey Keith,

Just wanted to say: Got a chance to watch some of the Superbike School:UK show, where Andy talks about the pick up drill and how extensively Pedrosa uses it, and then was watching the qualifying in Phillip Island and really noticing Pedrosa do it out of just about every corner. Way cool! Reminded me of how badly I need to get to one of your schools! It's cool to see the inside of the school a bit, too...really enjoying the show.

 

[Keith Code]

pickup

Hey Keith,

Just wanted to say: Got a chance to watch some of the Superbike School:UK show, where Andy talks about the pick up drill and how extensively Pedrosa uses it, and then was watching the qualifying in Phillip Island and really noticing Pedrosa do it out of just about every corner. Way cool! Reminded me of how badly I need to get to one of your schools! It's cool to see the inside of the school a bit, too...really enjoying the show.

Z3n

I haven't seen the show yet, where did you see it?

The pickup technique was originated in dirt track, as far as I know, at least that is where I first heard the words and saw the action. I believe Kenny Roberts was the first to visibly use it in roadracing back in the late 70's.

I've worked with a few pro riders who had difficulty using the technique. Since it was put in as a drill at the school in '96, we've found it takes a fair amount of practice for some riders to even barely get it.

There are other adjustments that have to be made to make it work for some riders.

Yes, Pedrosa is the poster boy for the pickup technique he gets it working in places other riders simply don't seem to have enough time to do it.

I might have mentioned this before but there are some interesting variations on the pickup that we have seen from riders on non traction control bikes, usually 600s where they induce a slide at the exit on purpose and snap the bike up into the wheel spin.

I want to be able to do that when I grow up...

Keith

 

[Z3n]

Z3n

I haven't seen the show yet, where did you see it?

The pickup technique was originated in dirt track, as far as I know, at least that is where I first heard the words and saw the action. I believe Kenny Roberts was the first to visibly use it in roadracing back in the late 70's.

I've worked with a few pro riders who had difficulty using the technique. Since it was put in as a drill at the school in '96, we've found it takes a fair amount of practice for some riders to even barely get it.

There are other adjustments that have to be made to make it work for some riders.

Yes, Pedrosa is the poster boy for the pickup technique he gets it working in places other riders simply don't seem to have enough time to do it.

I might have mentioned this before but there are some interesting variations on the pickup that we have seen from riders on non traction control bikes, usually 600s where they induce a slide at the exit on purpose and snap the bike up into the wheel spin.

I want to be able to do that when I grow up...

Keith

Episode 1:
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16140309ejQF5mKP?rank=0&category=category_sports&order=mr&

Episode 2:
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v1614039...2devilrey%22%7D&context=CHANNEL&viewType=user

There is a short ad at the beginning, and then the show itself.


Me? Well, I dream of being able to do something like that as well...as you say, I want to do that when I'm grown up.

 

[beginner]

Keith,

What bike weight do you prefer for a beginner's first bike?
How much practice time per month do you like to see beginners doing?
Are there particular exercises you like to see them working on?

 

[Keith Code]

Keith,

What bike weight do you prefer for a beginner's first bike?
How much practice time per month do you like to see beginners doing?
Are there particular exercises you like to see them working on?

What size is the rider?
What kind of riding do they intend to do?
How much practice? A hard question but I'd say as much as possible but quality practice working on specific things.
What things to work on? Changing speed and direction is all you can work on so I'd start there.

Work on steering. Work on getting the bike turned quickly and efficiently at higher and higher speeds is my suggestion for that part of it.

Keith

 

[beginner]

What size is the rider?
What kind of riding do they intend to do?
How much practice? A hard question but I'd say as much as possible but quality practice working on specific things.
What things to work on? Changing speed and direction is all you can work on so I'd start there.

Work on steering. Work on getting the bike turned quickly and efficiently at higher and higher speeds is my suggestion for that part of it.

Keith

Thanks for responding. I'm asking about the typical brand-newbie who wants to ride a motorcycle--we have to start somewhere.

Size of rider--let's say 170 pounds 5'10"

Kind of riding--not sure, brand new to the sport, but want to start on a bike that's optimal for learning beginner skills. I'm not looking for a make and model, just ideal characteristics.

How much to practice is the question I was most interested to hear you answer. As the name implies I'm a beginner (5 months). I enjoy practicing as much as cruising around. It's frustrating that I can find no road map for building basic skills over the long run simiar to what is found in most other sports.

Are there any particular exercises you like to see beginners doing?

Thanks again.

 

[Keith Code]

Thanks for responding. I'm asking about the typical brand-newbie who wants to ride a motorcycle--we have to start somewhere.

Size of rider--let's say 170 pounds 5'10"

Kind of riding--not sure, brand new to the sport, but want to start on a bike that's optimal for learning beginner skills. I'm not looking for a make and model, just ideal characteristics.

How much to practice is the question I was most interested to hear you answer. As the name implies I'm a beginner (5 months). I enjoy practicing as much as cruising around. It's frustrating that I can find no road map for building basic skills over the long run simiar to what is found in most other sports.

Are there any particular exercises you like to see beginners doing?

Thanks again.

Get something that isn't too uncomfortable. If you start out on a full on sportbike I think it will be more difficult to learn the skills you need to survive. SV650, Ninja 650R, Ducati Monster, those are the bikes I'd recommend.

Why not take a look through the "A Twist of the Wrist" books, you will find plenty of things to work on in them. That's what they're for.

Keith

 

[Burning1]

Beginner,

Not intended as an insult at all, just a bit of humor...

Beginner climbs the mountain. Upon reaching the top he meets with wise sage. Wise sage asks beginner what, deep in his heart, he wants to know. Upon a moment's reflection, beginner responds: "Where's the nearest bathroom?"

Keith is an amazing teacher. I read his books before my first track day, with only a few months of experience and about 4000 miles under my belt. As he said, there's a lot of great information in there that should keep you going for a while. While you probably could have asked anyone on this forum to recommend a good beginner's bike, it was very interesting to hear Kieth chime in on this old discussion. Thanks for being the one to ask.

 

[beginner]

Beginner,

Not intended as an insult at all, just a bit of humor...Beginner climbs the mountain. Upon reaching the top he meets with wise sage. Wise sage asks beginner what, deep in his heart, he wants to know. Upon a moment's reflection, beginner responds: "Where's the nearest bathroom?"

Burning, I meant to ask two things. The maximum weight a beginner bike should be and how much time a beginner should spend on exercises vs just riding around. Asking a riding master isn't a waste of anybody's time.

May be the question I should have asked Keith is what age he started riding and what was his first bike.