How Chaucy (sic) Bailey's killing relates to the killing of [4 OPD officers]

[tuxumino]

The people taunting the cops aren't representive of the citizens in that or any area of Oakland or the bay area. There will always be a few indivduals that hide in crowds to commit acts they wouldn't do outside of the crowd.

In the mid 80s a buddy and me saw a MC rider get hit by a car pulling out of the townhouses on the last block of Macdonald Ave in Richmond, just across the street from Acthison village. My buddy got on the CB while I helped the rider get himeslef and the bike out of MacDonald ave. the driver of the car parked it and ran back in to the townhouses. the cops came and a crowd formed on the townhouse side of Macdonald.
People in the crowd started taunting the injuried rider and the cops.
they did it becuase they could hide behind the crowd.

 

[kabazauls]

^^^^ you may want to ask yourself under what circumstances are you meeting these disrespectful cops? I would bet you will state you were at your Grandmothers house fixing her porch while petting a kitten when they confronted you, ignoring your halo and being rude. Well if you were committing a crime, in the vicinity of a crime, or had just committed a crime it is no wonder your interaction with the law was not to your satisfaction.

How much did you contribute to the interaction you had?

I'm a speeder. Isn't everybody?

I treat every cop with respect. You'd think they'd return the favor, nine times out of ten they don't.

 

[RickyHayden]

I'm a speeder. Isn't everybody?

I treat every cop with respect. You'd think they'd return the favor, nine times out of ten they don't.

When you were young and got in trouble, did your parents smile while they disciplined you?

 

[planegray]

............... I stopped being an asshole.

when did we vote on this ??

Emphasis added. Since it needs to be explicitly explained in simple terms, here goes...

I was talking about how a group of people were at the scene of the first two dead cops and were taunting the police. I stated that the public had good reason to be mad at the cops in Oakland. ...................

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that you (and Kabazauls) are saying;

Bad behavior is excusable if you can find fault (real or imagined) with someone else, and blame it on them

 

[jdhu]

I treat police with respect (since I don't want tickets, and I realize they have a difficult job), but some are just straight up assholes. I guess it's to be expected and probably not preventable; human nature is such that any conveyance of authority (no matter how minimal) will lead to some level of douchebaggery.

It is unbelievable though that any decent human being would taunt someone who just lost a friend/colleague. Then again, Russian nationalists taunted grievers at the site of a recent human rights lawyer's murder, and Irish nationalists were known for taunting British soldiers who were recovering their dead/wounded...

 

[planegray]

..........but some are just straight up assholes. I guess it's to be expected and probably not preventable; human nature is such that any conveyance of authority (no matter how minimal) will lead to some level of douchebaggery........

could you please add some perspective to this ?

1) is there an exclusive relationship with police officers and assholes, or is it possible that assholes exist elsewhere ?

2) are all people in authority assholes, or is it possible that there could be non-authoritative assholes too ?

from your post, it seems to me that the only assholes are police officers and/or authority figures.

And NO, it's not what you said; it's what you DID'T say that I am questioning.

 

[jdhu]

could you please add some perspective to this ?

1) is there an exclusive relationship with police officers and assholes, or is it possible that assholes exist elsewhere ?

2) are all people in authority assholes, or is it possible that there could be non-authoritative assholes too ?

from your post, it seems to me that the only assholes are police officers and/or authority figures.

And NO, it's not what you said; it's what you DID'T say that I am questioning.

I think my point was obvious (and I think you know how I will answer your questions), but I will elaborate anyway.

1. OBVIOUSLY, assholes exist everywhere in society. Some people are just natural assholes (cue cheap shot here...). This is exacerbated when they are given some sort of authority. Why is it that the DMV is disproportionally filled with assholes?

2. Well, already answered really. OBVIOUSLY, there are some good people who can handle being given authority and refrain from being dickheads.

And, some people will just be assholes, no matter what.

By "some level of douchebaggery," I mean society-wide, not that every single individual given some amount of power will then develop personal douchebaggery.

 

[planegray]

I think my point was obvious (and I think you know how I will answer your questions), but I will elaborate anyway.

1. OBVIOUSLY, assholes exist everywhere in society. Some people are just natural assholes (cue cheap shot here...). This is exacerbated when they are given some sort of authority. Why is it that the DMV is disproportionally filled with assholes?

2. Well, already answered really. OBVIOUSLY, there are some good people who can handle being given authority and refrain from being dickheads.

And, some people will just be assholes, no matter what.

By "some level of douchebaggery," I mean society-wide, not that every single individual given some amount of power will then develop personal douchebaggery.

Thanks,

I would prefer to ask, rather than assume, what you meant.

"Obvious" is a whole 'nother subject of discussion

 

[jdhu]

Thanks,

I would prefer to ask, rather than assume, what you meant.

"Obvious" is a whole 'nother subject of discussion

That's fine, I definitely don't mind explaining myself. In this instance, I thought the point was very clear.

 

[planegray]

That's fine, I definitely don't mind explaining myself. In this instance, I thought the point was very clear.

perhaps if you had just used all CAP'S I would have understood

 

[jdhu]

perhaps if you had just used all CAP'S I would have understood

If that's what you need...

 

[Ant]

I felt the same way, I was 22 before that view changed. Guess what, the cops didn't just get nice all of a sudden, I stopped being an asshole.

What a great statement!

 

[Bad Dad]

You know what I find? That MOST OF SOCIETY are assholes when I've dealt with them. Whether it be co-workers/bosses, wait staff, doctors offices, politicians, etc.

Ironically, almost all LEO's I've come across have been pretty cool. Maybe because, as Sonny said, I grew up. My last "bad experience" with a cop, was after I had lied to him and he found out the truth. (17 y/o).

 

[bertocci]

For everyone bitching at me, please point out where I either condoned or condemned the actions of people who were taunting the slain cops. Oh, that's right, I didn't.

The problem with bertocci's argument is he is making a blanket statement/inference that all blacks think alike. Placing QED at the end of his argument, in which he quotes no black Oakland residents, proves that his argument demonstrates only his POV.

Really, where did I mention anyone's race? All I said was that the public would have good reason to not like the police in Oakland. I never even stated how exactly certain individuals or groups of the public felt, only that they would have just cause to feel that way.

And really, please go look up QED in a math or logic textbook.

Bertocci, I appreciate your response, even if I don't agree with it. And, it does belong in the LEO forum, but I respect those that want to have it here in the sink.

I don't believe these "people" taunting the slain officers in the street had good reason to be pissed at the cops in Oakland. I don't think the Oscar Grant incident or the Chauncey Bailey investigation are good cause to be pissed off at OPD's street cops any more than it is appropriate to be pissed off at any black person or all black people or any or all residents of East Oakland (regardless of race) because of the actions of Mixon.

The attitudes demonstrated by these "people" totally contradicts their alleged motives. They claim they want fair treatment and justice.. well so do the cops. I don't judge others because of the actions of their neighbors. coworkers or people I see (or stereotype) as being in their peer group and would be equally unjust to judge me based upon the actions of my neighbors or coworkers or people you see (or stereotype) as being in my peer group.

FWIW, what is going on with the Messerly case are the same delays experienced in all criminal cases. People were up in arms that he was not interviewed at the time of the incident or days afterward.. well, guess what.. he is afforded the same legal rights as any suspect. People were upset that he posted bail.. again, he was afforded the same legal right to bail as anyone else.

It is as if these incensed people feel all of the sudden HE (Messerly) has no rights because THEY are outraged and they feel the justice system is not working because they aren't seeing the immediate results THEY want, regardless of the laws and the system that is in place to protect those rights. But, apparently they feel Mixon's actions were "justified" and/or he is some sort of hero (in re: the Mixon memorials etc.. for a violent rapist/convicted carjacker/wanted parolee/suspected murderer that was "turning is life around" according to his friends and family).

I wonder if the victims in the 6 rapes that he was suspected in, or the carjacking or the family of the prior murder victim (a murder that he was suspected in, but not prosecuted due to lack of evidence) would agree that he was "turning his life around." It seems that this predator, who at age 26 had already spent more than 1/2 his life in custody for violent crimes, was en route back to prison and he clearly presented a danger to the East Oakland community, including those that now hold him out as some sort of "martyr for the cause (against "the man")."

Let's be honest. Even in the very worst neighborhoods, the "bad guys" are in the minority. At least 95% of the community are law abiding citizens that just want what is best for their families and their neighbors. It would be easy to "write off" East Oakland and say "fuck 'em all!" But, that would be wrong.. just as wrong as those in the community that say "Fuck all police" because of the actions of a few.

Their hypocrisy is appalling. If you can't see that.. then there is nothing I can say here that will change your perspective.

Have a good day and ride safe.

Again, see above that I neither condemned nor condoned the actions of the people at the scene. I was only trying to explain them. While I agree that there is some hypocrisy involved, remember two things. First, it is your job as a cop to treat everyone equally, regardless of how you may want to stereotype then. Private citizens have no such legal obligations. Second, those two cases are just the tip of the iceberg - Oakland PD has had lots of problems. So when you have a department rife with problems, it's more than just a bit disconcerting to be an average citizen who doesn't enjoy the protection of a gun and a badge.

Anyways, that's all for me.

 

[racercosmo]

Do you really think that these are the ony two cases of police misconduct?


There are thousands of documented cases. We'll never know how many other Oscar Grants have been killed when there wasn't a cell phone around to record it.

MM4L didn't bring up those cases, somebody else did. I don't have all facts in front of me, so I won't dispute any numbers. I took MM4L's point to be that those two cases were not examples of why people should be mad at Oakland PD.

 

[m_asim]

I was having a heated conversation about this the other night with my renter, who happens to be White. He kept talking to me about how "people were taunting the Cops at the scene of the 1st murders".

That infuriates me, but also the fact that the media paints a picture of the low income, Black residents with a broad brush.

Most people appreciate and respect LEO's. It's mainly those POS low-lifes that commit crimes that have a true hatred for Cops. Yes, some people have been harassed by bad Cops, but even those people know that not all Cops are bad, just as not all Black people are a monolith.

+ billion.

I sense an undercurrent of Black vs. Whites tension in the discussion surrounding this incident. The image of 20 morons taunting grieving cops should not be used to paint the whole city of Oakland as some police hating philistines. The killings of officers is a human story touching people irrespective of their skin pigmentation (even if you don't see it on TV :|).


Two women pray at the memorial along MacArthur Boulevard and 74th Avenue.

School board member Jumoke Hinton Hodge (left) pats Susan Hayes-Smith, a community liason with the Oakland mayor's office, on the back while she signs a condolence book.

 

[masameet]

So what in your OP, bertocci, is truth? You show nothing but an opinion and an inference gleaned from a report that some people taunted the cops who were conducting the crime scene investigation.

How about the fact that one person there stepped forward and administered CPR to one of the downed officers? Doesn't that act undermine your point?

QED indeed. You're overreaching yourself in trying to prove what you have not proved. The public is not represented by a few disaffected people who cannot show they even respect themselves to behave civilized.

 

[jdhu]

Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya...

 

[94900rrsquid]

I was having a heated conversation about this the other night with my renter, who happens to be White. He kept talking to me about how "people were taunting the Cops at the scene of the 1st murders".

That infuriates me, but also the fact that the media paints a picture of the low income, Black residents with a broad brush.

Most people appreciate and respect LEO's. It's mainly those POS low-lifes that commit crimes that have a true hatred for Cops. Yes, some people have been harassed by bad Cops, but even those people know that not all Cops are bad, just as not all Black people are a monolith.

+1 about not all cops are bad. in general policeman are good people just like you and i. i work in colaboration with SJPD. one client of mine actually reported that a cop was a person who had a positive influence with his change of behavior. while sitting in back of the squad car, the officer spoke to the youth about how the officer understood his situation and parents (youth) situation of why they immigrated to the US insearch for a brighter future and that the youth's parents deserve to be proud of him. the officer also stated that if he gets away with his charge, consider that a second chance to make your parents proud. the minor stated to me that was a life changing moment because a police officer never talked to him in that manner before. and this motivated the youth to CHANGE. the last time i heard from my former client, he was on his way to UC berkely.

 

[Diezel]

Don't mind me, just trolling by....