Car battery issues - help/advice/info needed

[HiggyB]

I'm not sure where else to post this, so as directed I'm posting it here!

My GF has a 2001 Toyota Corolla, it's always been a champ of a car. For her birthday in February I bought her an in-car GPS at Best Buy in SF and had them wire it to run off the battery. A month or two later her car began having issues when trying to start it, but very intermittently. You'd turn the key and nothing, maybe one brief attempt to turn over the engine. Checks showed a full battery (headlights, stereo, power windows, etc.). Try, fail, try, fail, try, WORK! If you gave it enough tries it would eventually start up and off you'd go.

The above would happen like once every few weeks or so, sometimes more and sometimes less. Eventually I popped the hood to take a look at started by checking the battery terminals. The negative terminal looked fine but the positive one had a large amount of "blue powder" all around the terminal and the connector. I cleaned off the terminal and cleared out that "powder"/residue and all was good. Now I've noticed that when this issue crops up it seems to be associated with build-up of said powder... (as if it's building up between the terminal and connector preventing a closed-loop connection?)

My question here is: WTF? What sorts of issues might cause this? Ultimately I think it's best to (a) go to our regular mechanic about it, or (b) chat with Best Buy about it as they were the last to do any electrical work, but I sense that may not go far. So I'm doing some research of my own on this fine Friday and thought that the BARF cognoscenti might have something to offer.

Help? Ideas? Thanks yo...


Note: I thought of posting this in the garage but being as it's non-moto related I came to the Sink instead. Mods can/should feel free to move it as needed, thanks.

 

[mikev]

Try disconnecting the GPS and wiring it to the fuse panel under the drivers side dash instead and see if it makes a difference.

Wiring it directly to the battery could be slowly draining it

 

[mike23w]

check for a bad starter.

had same symptoms in my car.

 

[zpyro]

The "blue powder" should be cleaned up with baking soda+water, it's built up corrosion/acid that can create a circuit between the terminals and drain the battery. The baking soda+water neutralizes the acid so you can get it all nice and clean.

Since the battery has charge, however, and the problem is intermittent, I'd say it's caused by a bad connection somewhere, probably the terminals. My old work van had the same issue, I thought the batt was dead but when I went to put the jumper cables on the terminals, I heard the door chime go off....turn the key and it starts like nothing was wrong. They switched me to a new van anyways, but I'm pretty sure it was a poor connection at the battery

 

[HiggyB]

Try disconnecting the GPS and wiring it to the fuse panel under the drivers side dash instead and see if it makes a difference.

Wiring it directly to the battery could be slowly draining it

We've had the GPS out of the car for some time (it's only mounted and plugged in when in use, otherwise it sits in the glove box out of sight). And, through all of this the battery seems to have plenty of charge (new voltmeter is in order to be sure) and so I'm not so sure it's a question of slowly draining the battery.

I will however look into your wiring suggestion so thanks for that!

check for a bad starter.

had same symptoms in my car.

Interesting, I hadn't yet thought the starter might be an issue. My old '91 Tacoma had a starter related issue (would just "tick" and not start on occasion, smack with hammer and it'd fire right up ) and I didn't match those up. Thanks for the idea.

The "blue powder" should be cleaned up with baking soda+water, it's built up corrosion/acid that can create a circuit between the terminals and drain the battery. The baking soda+water neutralizes the acid so you can get it all nice and clean.

Awesome, I'll get that cleaned up then.

Since the battery has charge, however, and the problem is intermittent, I'd say it's caused by a bad connection somewhere, probably the terminals. My old work van had the same issue, I thought the batt was dead but when I went to put the jumper cables on the terminals, I heard the door chime go off....turn the key and it starts like nothing was wrong. They switched me to a new van anyways, but I'm pretty sure it was a poor connection at the battery

More to look into, thanks!


Anything else? Keep the comments coming as I'll be under the hood this weekend (damn, the bikes will hate me for workin' on the cage! )

 

[Asphaultnaut]

sounds like that GPS has a full time current draw even when turned off. Or there's a short somewhere else.

Accessories are best wired to come on with a key, unless it has some sort of volatile memory requirement, there's no need to keep it powered, and lots of reasons not to.

I know my Garmin updates everything volatile on powerup, like the time and date info. Everything else is nonvolatile and survives for years with no power.

I'm not sure where else to post this, so as directed I'm posting it here!

My GF has a 2001 Toyota Corolla, it's always been a champ of a car. For her birthday in February I bought her an in-car GPS at Best Buy in SF and had them wire it to run off the battery. A month or two later her car began having issues when trying to start it, but very intermittently. You'd turn the key and nothing, maybe one brief attempt to turn over the engine. Checks showed a full battery (headlights, stereo, power windows, etc.). Try, fail, try, fail, try, WORK! If you gave it enough tries it would eventually start up and off you'd go.

The above would happen like once every few weeks or so, sometimes more and sometimes less. Eventually I popped the hood to take a look at started by checking the battery terminals. The negative terminal looked fine but the positive one had a large amount of "blue powder" all around the terminal and the connector. I cleaned off the terminal and cleared out that "powder"/residue and all was good. Now I've noticed that when this issue crops up it seems to be associated with build-up of said powder... (as if it's building up between the terminal and connector preventing a closed-loop connection?)

My question here is: WTF? What sorts of issues might cause this? Ultimately I think it's best to (a) go to our regular mechanic about it, or (b) chat with Best Buy about it as they were the last to do any electrical work, but I sense that may not go far. So I'm doing some research of my own on this fine Friday and thought that the BARF cognoscenti might have something to offer.

Help? Ideas? Thanks yo...


Note: I thought of posting this in the garage but being as it's non-moto related I came to the Sink instead. Mods can/should feel free to move it as needed, thanks.

 

[Cheyenne]

My money is on loose battery terminal. Or needs cleaning on the inside of the connectors.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

is the Toyota voltage regulator a separate component or part of the starter assembly? That causes some cool (in a bad way) issues. Remember all those movies about alien abductions with car radios changing stations and the lights flickering and then the engine just winding down? It's a lot like that.

We've had the GPS out of the car for some time (it's only mounted and plugged in when in use, otherwise it sits in the glove box out of sight). And, through all of this the battery seems to have plenty of charge (new voltmeter is in order to be sure) and so I'm not so sure it's a question of slowly draining the battery.

I will however look into your wiring suggestion so thanks for that!



Interesting, I hadn't yet thought the starter might be an issue. My old '91 Tacoma had a starter related issue (would just "tick" and not start on occasion, smack with hammer and it'd fire right up ) and I didn't match those up. Thanks for the idea.




Awesome, I'll get that cleaned up then.


More to look into, thanks!


Anything else? Keep the comments coming as I'll be under the hood this weekend (damn, the bikes will hate me for workin' on the cage! )

 

[Finder]

If you're checking your battery just by checking the voltage or looking at headlights and windows, you're doing it wrong. It needs to be load tested. You can get that done pretty much anywhere that sells batteries (Sears, Kragen, gas station garages, etc...).

When it doesn't start, do you hear clicking?

 

[HiggyB]

sounds like that GPS has a full time current draw even when turned off. Or there's a short somewhere else.

Again, the unit is not even plugged in the vast majority of the time, the power cable is there, but the unit itself is unplugged and in the glove box so I don't see the GPS unit itself as drawing power (as it's not connected 99% of the time) and once the car starts there's no (obvious) sign of a weak battery. The short idea, that's entirely possible as I'm not 100% trusting in the quality of install work from Best Buy.

Accessories are best wired to come on with a key, unless it has some sort of volatile memory requirement, there's no need to keep it powered, and lots of reasons not to.

I know my Garmin updates everything volatile on powerup, like the time and date info. Everything else is nonvolatile and survives for years with no power.

The unit runs of its own internal batteries if the car's ignition is off (as soon as you shut down the engine the unit shows a message "going off in 30 seconds unless you hit a button to run on batteries" - not exact wording of course ).

My money is on loose battery terminal. Or needs cleaning on the inside of the connectors.

That's tops on my list of things to do and check. Clean the terminals and make sure everything is snug and proper.

is the Toyota voltage regulator a separate component or part of the starter assembly? That causes some cool (in a bad way) issues. Remember all those movies about alien abductions with car radios changing stations and the lights flickering and then the engine just winding down? It's a lot like that.

I have no clue there... No alien-like radio activity so far.

If you're checking your battery just by checking the voltage or looking at headlights and windows, you're doing it wrong. It needs to be load tested. You can get that done pretty much anywhere that sells batteries (Sears, Kragen, gas station garages, etc...).

When it doesn't start, do you hear clicking?

I noted the headlights and windows bit as my first thought when it didn't start was "aw crap, is the battery dead", and so flipping on the lights and all showed it had at least some juice. Whether it's fully good to go or not is another story and getting it properly checked is a solid idea.

And no on the clicking bit, that's what I had with my old Tacoma and it was a starter issue. In this case there's really just nothing, some times a half-assed attempt at one engine turnover then nada... No clicking, no noises, almost like a dead battery or no juice at all.


Lots of food for thought y'all, keep it coming and thanks for the tips!

 

[cardinal03]

Just get the connectors squeaky clean and you'll be fine. You already stated that taking care of the build-up took care of the problem. Build-up comes back, problem comes back. Get the connectors super clean you'll be good to go.

By the way, had the same problem on my Aunt's old Renault. Cleaned the connectors and car ran another five years.

 

[blacklotic]

Be sure to check the terminal ends (connectors) after you clean them to make sure there aren't any cracks and/or breaks on it, that blue corrosion eats away at metal of all types, less metal=less power from the battery getting to where it needs to go, run on sentence now finished.

 

[Xenophonii]

I'm not sure where else to post this, so as directed I'm posting it here!

My GF has a 2001 Toyota Corolla, it's always been a champ of a car. For her birthday in February I bought her an in-car GPS at Best Buy in SF and had them wire it to run off the battery. A month or two later her car began having issues when trying to start it, but very intermittently. You'd turn the key and nothing, maybe one brief attempt to turn over the engine. Checks showed a full battery (headlights, stereo, power windows, etc.). Try, fail, try, fail, try, WORK! If you gave it enough tries it would eventually start up and off you'd go.

The above would happen like once every few weeks or so, sometimes more and sometimes less. Eventually I popped the hood to take a look at started by checking the battery terminals. The negative terminal looked fine but the positive one had a large amount of "blue powder" all around the terminal and the connector. I cleaned off the terminal and cleared out that "powder"/residue and all was good. Now I've noticed that when this issue crops up it seems to be associated with build-up of said powder... (as if it's building up between the terminal and connector preventing a closed-loop connection?)

My question here is: WTF? What sorts of issues might cause this? Ultimately I think it's best to (a) go to our regular mechanic about it, or (b) chat with Best Buy about it as they were the last to do any electrical work, but I sense that may not go far. So I'm doing some research of my own on this fine Friday and thought that the BARF cognoscenti might have something to offer.

Help? Ideas? Thanks yo...


Note: I thought of posting this in the garage but being as it's non-moto related I came to the Sink instead. Mods can/should feel free to move it as needed, thanks.

Post on a Corolla board?

 

[Traq]

If you're checking your battery just by checking the voltage or looking at headlights and windows, you're doing it wrong. It needs to be load tested. You can get that done pretty much anywhere that sells batteries (Sears, Kragen, gas station garages, etc...).

+1

How old is the battery? It may just be giving up the ghost. Take it to a shop and have them check it.

 

[daventura]

is the Toyota voltage regulator a separate component or part of the starter assembly?

Working on cars long?

The voltage regulator is part of the charging system.
Connected or attached to an alternator or maybe even a generator...uh huh.
Starter assembly...not so much.

 

[afm199]

Clean the terminal and clamp well with baking soda and get some battery terminal spray from the auto supply. It's an anti corrosive that will stop it from happening again. Spray both posts and terminals. I use it on all my batteries and never have corrosion. O, and make sure the connection is tight.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Clean the terminal and clamp well with baking soda and get some battery terminal spray from the auto supply. It's an anti corrosive that will stop it from happening again. Spray both posts and terminals. I use it on all my batteries and never have corrosion. O, and make sure the connection is tight.

Winner!

And what Ernie didn't say (although he implied it) is that you should take the terminals off the battery posts to clean them so you get them clean inside, where it counts.

 

[HiggyB]

Thanks y'all, cleaning everything good is step 1 after that I'll chase down the other suggestions as necessary. I appreciate the tips, BARF to the rescue!