Two motorcyclists hit each other head on! (10/11/09)

[rbm]

...

 

[SOLAR ZX-10R]

I stole this from SBR...

.....i almost got hit head on by a rider saturday....he crossed double yellow passing 3 to 4 cars heading west on 84 coming straight towards me.........i will remember you....

 

[sixtytwo]

Gosh, I feel really bad for the Norton rider... and his bike as well. However, I have absolutely no sympathy for the duc rider who was obviously in way over his head.

This is one of the reasons why I avoid 9/35/84 like the plague on the weekends.

 

[Gary J]

Very sorry to hear of this bike-to-bike collision (obviously) on Hwy 84 yesterday afternoon, and hope both riders recovery fully, and quickly.

Having ridden that very same section of road yesterday, on my way to the LaDucati Day event, and dealt with the well-known slippery pavement surface on that section of road, I have to say that hearing of the Ducati rider crossing over the centerline in the righthand turn (unfortunately) isn't all that surprising.

For those that regularly ride that upper section of Hwy 84, between Alices and La Honda, especially year-round, the extremely slippery pavement surface in many areas... whenever the weather turns cool-n-damp or rainy, is a given.

One of the main factors for the slipperyness in many areas, appears to be a thin layer of mossy algae that forms on the top surface of the pavement, due to the extended periods of standing dampness from the mountain environment, and minimal sunlight exposure (due to the heavy tree cover).

Even at what was a very conservative speed, and being totally aware of the conditions, I experienced one minor sideways slide of the rear tire, in one of those corners.

Just a minor attention getter in my case. But that being thanks to knowing well of the road's character, anticipating such an event, and riding in a manner adjusted to those conditions. An adjustment that can require riding well below the actual posted limits.

It's highly likely that the crossing over into the oncoming lane by the Ducati rider was initially triggered by losing traction on one of these very slippery sections, due to his riding too fast for the conditions. A responsibility for all riders, regardless of what those conditions may be.

I really feel sorry for the vintage bike rider, in being guilty of nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong moment, through no fault of his own.

Wishing everyone well in the road to recovery.

 

[750_sport]

It sickens me, but makes me realize experienced riders have a personal stake in policing our own. Cuz if we don't do it, The Man will come in and do it for us, and we won't like the way he does it...

I don't care how you slice n' dice the data, this shit is fucked up and there's something seriously wrong going on:

Annual U.S. motorcycle deaths
Year Deaths
1997 2,116
1998 2,294
1999 2,483
2000 2,897
2001 3,197†
2002 3,244
2003 3,661‡
2004 4,008
2005 4,253
2006 4,510
2007 4,854
2008 5,357

Nobody can tell me there was a 20% rise in the number of riders between 2005 and 2008. Or a doubling in 10 years from 1998-2008. 5357 is like 20% of all traffic fatalities in 2008! I mean, I don't know what's going on, but we gotta do something...it's making me consider banning motorcycles...

They will never ban motorcycles. While the death rate is going higher. Its because motorcycels are becoming a everyday household item. No longer a toy for the Greasers to be bad crimnals on the weekend. Gas prices goes up... new riders are coming into the picture. If you look to post motorcycle sales over the same time. you will see the same increase. Education and a better dmv drivers skill test
Displacement level like they do in europe. Get a scooter for a few years before you can go bigger. That would be good all the way around. Economy and safety. I think its too easy to get a drivers lic in the U.S. for anything.

Policing our own will only work to help slow down some of the B.S. on the roads. But it has to be done proactively, which means you need to stay on top of your friends before they go speeding off and cross the dy... or bust that wheelie down the freeway.

As for the dealers? You cant blame them. I have seen it time after time. If they dont sell that bike. That customer will just go somewhere else and get it. Or he will just lie about his level, I have seen it over and over.
Two problems.. One.... Education needs to be better, Two...... Its a macho thing. Bigger the cc's I got the bigger of a man I am... , That right there hurts and kills more people on bikes.
They only way to slow down number two is a leveled DL. Where you have to spend time on smaller bikes before you can move up. Then you can restrict dealers to sell only what your lic states you can have.
will that stop everyone? No you could buy on craigslist or private party. But I think after someone gets sued for selling a out of class driver a bigger bike. That would slow down too.

So Education is the key...... or just dont put yourself out in harms way. like going to Alices on the weekends..

 

[NorCalBusa]

Annual U.S. motorcycle deaths
Year Deaths
1997 2,116
1998 2,294
1999 2,483
2000 2,897
2001 3,197†
2002 3,244
2003 3,661‡
2004 4,008
2005 4,253
2006 4,510
2007 4,854
2008 5,357

Nobody can tell me there was a 20% rise in the number of riders between 2005 and 2008. Or a doubling in 10 years from 1998-2008. 5357 is like 20% of all traffic fatalities in 2008! I mean, I don't know what's going on, but we gotta do something...it's making me consider banning motorcycles...

Sure we can, these data are "new US motorcycle unit sales";
2003 922,450
2004 965,400
2005 1,009,588
2006 1,022,332
2007 948,464
2008 879,910

 

[irishgixxer]

UK Motorcycle Law! Proper order!

At 17 you can apply for either an 'A' or 'A1' licence.

To gain a full A1 light motorcycle licence you must complete CBT, the theory test and a practical test on a vehicle between 75cc and 125cc. A full 'A1' licence permits you to ride any motorcycle up to 125cc and a power output of up to 11kW (14.6 bhp) without 'L' plates, you may carry a pillion passenger and travel on motorways.

For the category 'A' licence you must complete CBT and pass the theory test followed by the practical test on a motorcycle of over 120cc but not larger than 125cc and capable of at least 100kph.

A full standard category 'A' licence permits you to ride motorcycles with a power output of up to 25kW (33bhp), and a power-to-weight ratio not exceeding 0.16kW/kg, without 'L' plates, carry a pillion passenger and use motorways. The 33bhp ceiling applies for two years (not counting any periods of disqualification). After that you may ride a motorcycle of any capacity and power.

 

[Gabe]

While the death rate is going higher. Its because motorcycels are becoming a everyday household item. No longer a toy for the Greasers to be bad crimnals on the weekend. Gas prices goes up... new riders are coming into the picture. If you look to post motorcycle sales over the same time. you will see the same increase.

Sales actually declined between 2007 and 2008, yet there was a 10% increase in deaths 07-08. Why? The increase in death rate has outstripped the increase in sales many years. And the biggest category gain, in 2008, was scooters, small ones. Death rates for scooters is very, very low (can't remember where I saw that).

Education and a better dmv drivers skill test Displacement level like they do in europe. Get a scooter for a few years before you can go bigger. That would be good all the way around. Economy and safety. I think its too easy to get a drivers lic in the U.S. for anything...The only way to slow down number two is a leveled DL. Where you have to spend time on smaller bikes before you can move up. Then you can restrict dealers to sell only what your lic states you can have.

I challenge you to find a single study to back up that assertion. Every study I've seen about the effects of tiered licensing has been either neutral or inconclusive.

Policing our own will only work to help slow down some of the B.S. on the roads. But it has to be done proactively, which means you need to stay on top of your friends before they go speeding off and cross the dy... or bust that wheelie down the freeway.

Amen to that, brother!

But peer pressure only goes so far. I'm sure Ducati boy here has plenty of responsible motorcycle friends. But he was a young guy, and young guys don't make good decisions all the time. If we are serious about saving lives and keeping the heat off our sport, we will support mandatory rider training and helmet laws in every state. Not a popular position, but this is getting f-ing ridiculous.

 

[clutchslip]

I mean, I don't know what's going on, but we gotta do something...it's making me consider banning motorcycles...

You claim to be a journalist, right? So please do me, a life long motorcyclist, a couple of favors:

A. Don't be a nanny reactionary with no solutions.
B. Don't post on a motorcycle forum about your desire to ban motorcycles.
C. And PLEASE, find another field to continue your journalistic endeavors. We, motorcyclists and citizens, really don't need more negativity and hostile press.

The old saying, "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem", seems highly appropriate in this instance.

Thank you.

Edit:
Written before Gabe's last post. Statements stand, with moderation.

 

[hulagun66]

statistics

One thing I did find out is that the biggest category of motorcycle injuries so far in 2009 is age 20-29. And we all know guys in their 20s love big ol Hogs, right?

Gabe, could that indicate that total rider levels may not fluctate much - but total rider age / experience level is dropping?

As Gary J pointed out, the Duc rider may have crossed the line because he was riding too fast *for conditions*. IOW he may be a track day hero (where traction is pretty much always ideal), but with less street experience. It's likely slippery pavement made him clench, fearful of leaning it (and dropping his new bike), end result same as a total noob grabbing the brakes and standing it up in a dry corner. Even good riders can run wide when traction goes away. They just don't freeze up afterward...

Another thing an experienced rider knows is dropping a bike is ALWAYS preferable to hitting a heavy object (deer, rider, car, wall, etc) at speed.
He still might have hit oncoming traffic but it very likely would have been a lot less damaging all around.

If the rider who posted his quip about Norton riders reads this, sorry I didnt appreciate the irony. Just wasn't feelin very funny last night.

It was also a bit disturbing seeing crash photos, but on reflection it is good to show people that motorcycles really ARE dangerous, and bad decisions have consequences. Maybe post the photos of my Norton-riding friend's femur sticking out of his leg yesterday. Maybe some morgue photos of my two friends who died while riding this year...

RIP James, RIP Larry.

 

[Gabe]

You claim to be a journalist, right? So please do me, a life long motorcyclist, a couple of favors:

A. Don't be a nanny reactionary with no solutions.
B. Don't post on a motorcycle forum about your desire to ban motorcycles.
C. And PLEASE, find another field to continue your journalistic endeavors. We, motorcyclists and citizens, really don't need more negativity and hostile press.

The old saying, "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem", seems highly appropriate in this instance.

Thank you.

Hey you're the one wearing pink pumps...

I was joking when I wrote I'm considering banning motorcycles...and just because I don't have a solution doesn't mean I don't want one. When my friend tells me he's had 5 close friends killed or injured in one year, you can bet I'm going to discuss it with my community on a public forum. That's where solutions start: with discussion. When I write for publication, what I write is generally positive.

I write about motorcycles and motorcycle safety. I also coach MSF. Do you? What do you do to be "part of the solution" besides whining about constructive discussion of the number one thing threatening our sport?

 

[Ogg]

Graduated licensing sounds like a grand idea. Unfortunately, I think it'd be extraordinarily difficult to implement. Each of the 50 states has independent licensing requirements. What are the chances of a Federal MC licensing standard? How would the MC manufacturing industry react? How many people already ride without a MC endorsement?

I think the most telling bit is the high proportion of deaths in the 20-29 age group. Can't speak for the rest of you, but I know that at that age I was poor, bullet-proof, and an idiot. (doesn't mean I'm not still an idiot. Just stoopid about other things now). Armored leathers? Back protectors? ATGATT for a Sunday run in GA (or TX or some other evilly hot place)? Thousands for protective gear when you could spend it on the cool sounding slip-ons? I'll argue you're not thinking like the average twenty-something.

While I'm on my soap box making enemies, poke through the pictures from LDD yesterday. Note how many riders are in jeans. Even those that appear older than 29. Really think they're all wearing back protectors and armor under there?

The point of my cool story (bro) is that it sure seems like folks are ready to point the finger at others before getting their own act together. If you ride sprotbiles it's the HD crowd who are reckless idiots. If you ride a HD, it's those clueless stunting sprotbiles (and Desmo revvers ).

So, ummm... lead by example, eh?
</rant>

 

[HIglesias]

damn! glad i didn't go to alices this weekend!

but seriously, how did 4 manage to go down on the bay bridge? wtf

 

[Archimedes]

we are ok..the gixxer kinda flew over, my cousin was riding my gixxer and he high sided when he tried to swerve onto the dirt to avoid the car..., and the yellow gixxer low sided, i was last guy and saw it happened, the car kinda sped away quick

Did the car actually blow way over the yellow or was it a case of the moto taking an inside line and the car riding onto the yellow?

 

[Foxhole Atheist]

if the Duc was the cause of the accident, I hope he took the lesson to heart.

Quite a difference between this thread and the 350z one.

Rider crosses the DY and hits another rider -- "hope he learned his lesson."

Cager crosses the DY but doesn't hit anyone -- "lynch him!!!"

 

[Archimedes]

While I'm on my soap box making enemies, poke through the pictures from LDD yesterday. Note how many riders are in jeans. Even those that appear older than 29. Really think they're all wearing back protectors and armor under there?

I was gonna make the same comment about the riders standing around the wrecked Gixxers in this thread. All in jeans. Wonder what the girl riding pillion on the second bike was wearing (and how old she was).

 

[Ant]

Bought my first street only bike without an M1 or even proof of insurance. Didn't even have any money with me either. Was out 'looking' because I was planning to buy after I took the MSF but I stumbled across what I was planning on getting anyhow at a good price.

This struck me as really odd, basically anyone over 18 that can sign a piece of paper sans license or insurance can get a haul ass bike and ride it off the lot.

I think this is a BIG part of the problem.

 

[Archimedes]

And all you guys who think this is a new phenomenon caused by the latest crop of young riders...I remember a great/tragic article I read in Cycle World over 20 years ago (around 1986-88) written by one of the editors (Boehm Ienatsch, ?) about an accident they came upon that occured on Angeles Crest that was near identical to this one, but with a different outcome. 18 year old kid, on a brand new big bore standard if I recall, crosses the DY and hits a 45 year old experienced rider on a VFR. VFR rider loses a foot and dies at the scene from loss of blood. 18 year old suffers only minor injuries.

People have been doing stupid things since before man walked erect. The only difference now is the various media that brings us all the information all the time.

 

[Gabe]

And all you guys who think this is a new phenomenon caused by the latest crop of young riders...I remember a great/tragic article I read in Cycle World over 20 years ago (around 1986-88) written by one of the editors (Boehm Ienatsch, ?) about an accident they came upon that occured on Angeles Crest that was near identical to this one, but with a different outcome. 18 year old kid, on a brand new big bore standard if I recall, crosses the DY and hits a 45 year old experienced rider on a VFR. VFR rider loses a foot and dies at the scene from loss of blood. 18 year old suffers only minor injuries.

People have been doing stupid things since before man walked erect. The only difference now is the various media that brings us all the information all the time.

Agreed, but we're losing a lot more riders per year now than in the 80s, even though bikes are better, gear is better and training is better. That's a big difference.

 

[Pelon]

Gabe, could that indicate that total rider levels may not fluctate much - but total rider age / experience level is dropping?

As Gary J pointed out, the Duc rider may have crossed the line because he was riding too fast *for conditions*. IOW he may be a track day hero (where traction is pretty much always ideal), but with less street experience. It's likely slippery pavement made him clench, fearful of leaning it (and dropping his new bike), end result same as a total noob grabbing the brakes and standing it up in a dry corner. Even good riders can run wide when traction goes away. They just don't freeze up afterward...

Another thing an experienced rider knows is dropping a bike is ALWAYS preferable to hitting a heavy object (deer, rider, car, wall, etc) at speed.
He still might have hit oncoming traffic but it very likely would have been a lot less damaging all around.
.

According to Finder's post earlier in this string (Post #26) The guy on the Duc was riding way over his head and reckless. The Duc also had less that 300 miles on it. I doubt road conditions had much to do with the cause of this incident.

Post# 26" I was driving and followed the guy on the white duc up Skyline from 92. He was rippin it, trying to drag knee in what looked like jeans and a textile jacket, leaning way off but not actually going very fast. Looked a little iffy in the corners, especially as we hit some damp spots. I was holding steady on speed the whole way and he'd pull away quick in the straights, then I'd catch sight of him again in mid turn.

We both turned onto 84 west at Alice's where he cut off a red BMW 335i (failed to look left at the merge). I ass-clenched for the both of them as the bimmer brakes for the rider. Saw the rider again stopped in a little pull out maybe a mile down. A little further down, I stopped for the construction lights where it turns into a controlled single lane, at which point I see the Duc rider arrive, pulling to the front of the queue. Lights turn green, and less than a minute down the road, traffic starts backing up and I come upon the scene."