Counting music beats

[UDRider]

Tango music is a completely different ball of wax. OK, let me give you an easy one to start with. There is a little snare roll on the 1 of every measure in this tango song. From there, it's just a matter of counting the rest. (edit: the snare roll actually ends on 1. It doesn't start on 1. Just thought I'd mention that so you didn't get confused.)

[youtube]ic4PQ-tnwJw[/youtube]

The problem is that not every tango song has a nice backbeat to help you out. But, this song is a good place for you to start with the counting. If you have trouble finding the 1 in this song, you're really gonna cry when a song without drums comes up.

Start with the first one. Once you get the hang of it, see if you can pick up the 1 in these songs.

[youtube]km6aN4PSa_c[/youtube]

So snare roll is that drum "rattle"?

With your classic tango beat, it's going to want to count it like 1. 2. And-threee-four. 1. 2. And-threee-four. The "and three-four" could sneak up on you if you count it that way and you'll be late, then have to rush to catch up. Get used to thinking through the whole thing as 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-1... Having that in your head will help keep you in time. You basically double the tempo in your mind and then the fast steps are not so fast. Once you get used to that it'll flow a lot easier.

You could try to get a metronome (there are phone apps, or a cheap ones at music shops). Pick a tempo and set it to play eighth notes. A smarter metronome will distinguish the 1 from the others, and the up beats from everything else. Eventually you'll start hearing it in every rhythmic sound you hear. Then you'll find yourself making up rhythms to normal sounds like your footsteps.

Whats a good tempo? I downloaded Mobile Metronome for Android. It has Time Signature # (note measure)/# (Quarter note or Eighth note)
and beat subdivision (as quarter note, eight note, triplet, sixteenth). Not sure what all those settings mean.

If you are trying to keep the beat then imo you are doing it wrong. Feel the music, feel your partner and glide. The beat is there just for the music and your steps do not have to be on beat.

I have one year of argentine tango under my belt and I am no expert.

Houston we have a problem.
Haven't touched Argentine, just American for now.

Found this on youtube. Whats the verdict, are they following it?
I think I can count at the beginning (them moving to it helps), but then I get lost in the middle. Seems like it stops following slow, slow, fast, fast, slow. Around 1:20 mark.

[youtube]CFiq-2LAQpY[/youtube]

 

[elbacalao]

Whoever suggests that one needn't dance to the beat of the music is an idiot. Or just caucasian. Of course you need to be able to dance to the beat. All great dancers feel and understand the rhythms that they are moving too. However, as a dancer, the "musical/rhythmic beat" is really not as paramount to good dancing as much as feeling and understanding the PULSE of the music/rhythm being played. A song can have many rhythms being played simultaneously, but the PULSE of the piece will remain the same. That is what you need to feel/understand fundamentally.

The tango dancers in the youtube video above are indeed dancing to the music. Tango (as well as any afro-american/pan caribbean music,) is a very syncopated dance, as the music itself is very syncopated. To do it correctly, one must move to the rhythmic nuances occurring in the music. However, the pulse is constant. If you can feel the pulse, the rest will follow.

 

[wannabe]

I agree with our resident drum instructor. You have to dance to the beat. There is nothing more frustrating to a follower than a leader who doesn't lead to the rhythm of the music. And, conversely, when you get better, you will find that you are less likely to give repeat dances to a follower who can't stay on the beat either. If you're not going to dance to the music, why bother having it on in the first place?

And, to the OP, set your metronome to 80 beats per minute and just get a feeling for the tempo. (Count 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4... as you walk.) When you walk, just have it on and try walking to the beat so that every step hits the ground on each beat. Then, slow it down to 60 bpm and walk faster so that your left foot hits the ground on each beat. Your right foot will essentially be hitting on the 'up beat.' This is the start of the synchopation that elbacalao was talking about. It sounds like you don't have this innate feeling for the music, so at the very least, you should work on being able to stay on the beat.

In time, you will be able to feel the tempo naturally. You can switch the counting around from 1, 2, 3, 4 to 'slow, slow, fast, fast, slow.' But, take your time and go back and forth with the counting. In time, you will get a feeling of where the 'slow, slow, fast, fast, slow' lines up with the 1, 2, 3, 4 in the rhythms.

 

[UDRider]

Whoever suggests that one needn't dance to the beat of the music is an idiot. Or just caucasian. Of course you need to be able to dance to the beat. All great dancers feel and understand the rhythms that they are moving too. However, as a dancer, the "musical/rhythmic beat" is really not as paramount to good dancing as much as feeling and understanding the PULSE of the music/rhythm being played. A song can have many rhythms being played simultaneously, but the PULSE of the piece will remain the same. That is what you need to feel/understand fundamentally.

The tango dancers in the youtube video above are indeed dancing to the music. Tango (as well as any afro-american/pan caribbean music,) is a very syncopated dance, as the music itself is very syncopated. To do it correctly, one must move to the rhythmic nuances occurring in the music. However, the pulse is constant. If you can feel the pulse, the rest will follow.

Hmm will need to think about this. Thanks.

I agree with our resident drum instructor. You have to dance to the beat. There is nothing more frustrating to a follower than a leader who doesn't lead to the rhythm of the music. And, conversely, when you get better, you will find that you are less likely to give repeat dances to a follower who can't stay on the beat either. If you're not going to dance to the music, why bother having it on in the first place?

And, to the OP, set your metronome to 80 beats per minute and just get a feeling for the tempo. (Count 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4... as you walk.) When you walk, just have it on and try walking to the beat so that every step hits the ground on each beat. Then, slow it down to 60 bpm and walk faster so that your left foot hits the ground on each beat. Your right foot will essentially be hitting on the 'up beat.' This is the start of the synchopation that elbacalao was talking about. It sounds like you don't have this innate feeling for the music, so at the very least, you should work on being able to stay on the beat.

In time, you will be able to feel the tempo naturally. You can switch the counting around from 1, 2, 3, 4 to 'slow, slow, fast, fast, slow.' But, take your time and go back and forth with the counting. In time, you will get a feeling of where the 'slow, slow, fast, fast, slow' lines up with the 1, 2, 3, 4 in the rhythms.

What about all other settings?

There is Time Signature: {2...20} notes per measure / {4 Qarter Note, 8 Quarter note}
Beat subdivision {as a quarter note, in eight note, in triplet notes, etc}

Thanks.

 

[Entoptic]

Hi whiteboy here

[youtube]2mVJDQyyWg[/youtube]

at points they are on beat and at other they are not on beat. Keeping beat while dancing is hard but like I said just flow which is what someone else said about feeling the undertones and going with it.keeping the beat imp would be a step on every beat.

 

[wannabe]

What about all other settings?

There is Time Signature: {2...20} notes per measure / {4 Qarter Note, 8 Quarter note}
Beat subdivision {as a quarter note, in eight note, in triplet notes, etc}

Thanks.

Stick to basic 4/4 time. In other words, 4 quarter notes per measure. Don't worry about any other time signature for now. Stick to basic 4/4 until you get that down. The rest will just confuse you.

 

[team1813]

Stick to basic 4/4 time. In other words, 4 quarter notes per measure. Don't worry about any other time signature for now. Stick to basic 4/4 until you get that down. The rest will just confuse you.

^^^ THIS


Think of things in 2 sets of 4 or one set of 8 (the same amount of time). Just listen. You'll hear a repeating pattern with two groups back to back that are somewhat similar and they repeat themselves. In general 1 3 5 and 7 are down beats which are deeper. 2, 4, 6 and 8 are up beats which are higher. Usually 4 and 8 have a bit more flair which kicks off the 5 and 1 downbeats respectively.

It's not easy at first. I just listened to the music and counted to 8 over and over again and then it kicked in, and when I say listened, I mean hours and hours and hours. Funny thing is Argentine Tango is very flexible with keeping a beat count in that you can slow down and pause to get back on track (although you need to keep things going so to speak). Salsa, West Coast Swing, Night Club Two Step require you to be "on the beat" all the time which can be more difficult. ( to be clear Argentine Tango is WAY harder as a dance overall, but the beat count can be more flexible.)

You just have to keep at it and be passionate about it. Good luck.

Also, anyone that says you don't need to dance to the beat is flat out wrong. If you can do basic steps, but are on beat, you'll be fine. If you're off beat, it's a disaster. I hate to be crude on that, but that's the case. It is why being a beginning leader is very very difficult. You have so much to think about, and if you don't feel and get the beat, it just doesn't work. This isn't an ATGATT thing, this is a social thing. You MUST be on beat. End of story. Not much else to say till this happens.

Just keep grinding. I've been doing it for two years, and I feel like I suck, but it's just the way it goes.

 

[UDRider]

Thanks for more detailed explanation. Quick follow up question. I was listening to metronome at 80 bpm, 4/4, as a quarter note. How does this "map" to Two step for example? Slow, quick, quick, slow? Is slow count 1 and 2, quick, quick 3, 4 and slow slide back restarts at 1? Tried that motion and just couldn't do it. The 1, 2 seemed too slow.

Also I tried walking to 60 bpm with one foot hitting on beat and other between beats. It seemed very fast, almost like a very brisk walk.

 

[tzrider]

Thanks for more detailed explanation. Quick follow up question. I was listening to metronome at 80 bpm, 4/4, as a quarter note. How does this "map" to Two step for example? Slow, quick, quick, slow? Is slow count 1 and 2, quick, quick 3, 4 and slow slide back restarts at 1? Tried that motion and just couldn't do it. The 1, 2 seemed too slow.

Also I tried walking to 60 bpm with one foot hitting on beat and other between beats. It seemed very fast, almost like a very brisk walk.

The quick step is usually 3/4, I believe. The way I've seen it is quick, quick, slow, slow; counted "one and two, three."

 

[UDRider]

The quick step is usually 3/4, I believe. The way I've seen it is quick, quick, slow, slow; counted "one and two, three."

I believe quick step is different from nightclub two step.

 

[tzrider]

I believe quick step is different from nightclub two step.

Uh, I meant to say two step. Anyway, if the sequence is as you wrote above, count "one, two and three."

 

[n10sive]

udrider...you talking about the nightclub two step? it's 4/4.

[youtube]eKjDnGJ4Np4[/youtube]

 

[Entoptic]

UD how is the dancing coming along?

 

[wannabe]

udrider...you talking about the nightclub two step? it's 4/4.

No, guessing from his previous answers, it sounds like he's taking ballroom lessons. (Specifically, International Standard.) So, he's probably talking about ballroom quickstep:

[youtube]KcBop6cQV_k[/youtube]

 

[n10sive]

I believe quick step is different from nightclub two step.

No, guessing from his previous answers, it sounds like he's taking ballroom lessons. So, he's probably talking about ballroom quickstep:

FYI, Nightclub twostep IS taught in ballroom classes. It's one of the basic dances they teach. At least in the classes I have taken.

 

[wannabe]

To the OP, if you are indeed taking International Standard ballroom lessons, here's a summary of the time signatures for the dances that you are learning:

Dance Time Signature
Waltz 3/4 time
Tango 4/4 time
Viennese Waltz 3/4 time
Foxtrot 4/4 time
Quickstep 4/4 time


If you still have trouble with tempo and hearing the music rhythms, you should stay away from International Latin for a while. But, don't get discouraged. Keep going. It will come.

 

[UDRider]

udrider...you talking about the nightclub two step? it's 4/4.

[youtube]eKjDnGJ4Np4[/youtube]

Yes. Will watch the video when I get home.
What I mean is way I learned the basic is slow (move to a side on left foot, drag right), quick, quick (rock step), slow back (move to the right foot drag left), quick, quick (rock step). So I am a bit confused how it maps to 4/4 at 80 bpm, to 1, 2, 3 ,4, 1, 2, 3 ,4.

UD how is the dancing coming along?

It's going. I learned few steps in Salsa, American Tango, and two step. Just doing shit load of practicing. I an my instructor put together a quick routine for each for a showcase this Weekend at the studio. I guess it's a good way to get feedback on progress, plus it sounds like fun. On some of the Tango I am starting to feel and hear the rhythm a bit I think. Salsa too, Two step not so much yet.

No, guessing from his previous answers, it sounds like he's taking ballroom lessons. So, he's probably talking about ballroom quickstep:

Nope, nightclub two step.

 

[wannabe]

I stand corrected. I guess that most of my experience was with competitive ballroom.

Where are you taking lessons?

 

[Entoptic]

awesome sauce UD. I will have to post up a video of Erin and I learning how to tango on stilts, Its a good laugh.

 

[n10sive]

Yes. Will watch the video when I get home.
What I mean is way I learned the basic is slow (move to a side on left foot, drag right), quick, quick (rock step), slow back (move to the right foot drag left), quick, quick (rock step). So I am a bit confused how it maps to 4/4 at 80 bpm, to 1, 2, 3 ,4, 1, 2, 3 ,4.

The video does a good job showing the count. The hardest part is not to rush the slide. I always said the & beat on the slide. Example:

Slide (1 &) going left...(3 &) going back. I always count the half beats on this step. 1&2&3&4&. It's the only way to keep it in time for me.

The video does it the classic way which is to start on the rock step (off the beat). I was taught to start on the slide step (on the beat). When you get to rumba and the latin dances, people will do the same thing...that is...start on the off beat vs on the beat. Don't let it confuse you.