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Counting music beats

UDRider

UDRider

FLCL?
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Dec 21, 2009
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The lulz machine.
Any trick to it? Primarily for dancing purposes to distinguish between fast and slow.

Thanks.
 
CABilly said:
I'm not sure what you mean... are you talking about just keeping time? Or determining tempo?
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Hmm, keeping time I guess. For example dance steps are slow, slow, fast, fast, slow. How the hell do I time that to music for that dance?
 
UDRider said:
Hmm, keeping time I guess. For example dance steps are slow, slow, fast, fast, slow. How the hell do I time that to music for that dance?
Click to expand...

The key, if I understand what you're asking, is to subdivide.

Instead if counting the beat straight on the quarter notes (1-2-3-1-2-3), break it down to the next level, usually an eighth note or triplet (1-and-2-and-3-and- or 1-and-uh-2-and-uh-3-and-uh).

Doing that will keep you timed up for your fast moves and grounded for the slower ones. If you're learning a routine, you can break the moves down and note checkpoints along the subdivision.
 
After two and a half decades of being a percussionist, I can't not count beats of anything I'm listening to.
 
CABilly said:
The key, if I understand what you're asking, is to subdivide.

Instead if counting the beat straight on the quarter notes (1-2-3-1-2-3), break it down to the next level, usually an eighth note or triplet (1-and-2-and-3-and- or 1-and-uh-2-and-uh-3-and-uh).

Doing that will keep you timed up for your fast moves and grounded for the slower ones. If you're learning a routine, you can break the moves down and note checkpoints along the subdivision.
Click to expand...

Yes I think this is what I am after. Problem is I don't know how to identify any of that. :( Tried searching online for some examples or something and came up blank. Probably because I am not sure what to search for.
 
UDRider said:
Hmm, keeping time I guess. For example dance steps are slow, slow, fast, fast, slow. How the hell do I time that to music for that dance?
Click to expand...



Ok. I get it. You're learning ballroom. Specifically, cha cha. When ballroom instructors say, "Slow slow fast fast slow," that's basically the same as: 1 2 3-and 4. In other words, there are two steps on the 3 of each measure.

When you listen to music, can you at least find the 1,2, 3, 4? If not, start there. Just listen to music and try to find the 1. The rest kinda fits as long as you know where the beginning of every phrase is.

Edit: Also, for cha cha, if you have trouble with counting, "slow slow fast fast slow," try counting the old school way: "1 2 cha cha cha"
 
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By the way, here are a few very popular cha cha songs. First practice counting 1,2,3,4 with each song. Once you get that down, try counting 1, 2, cha cha cha with the same songs.

[youtube]OByzkHWCH0c[/youtube]

[youtube]z5mOPYIj_8g[/youtube]

[youtube]muOXqt474HI[/youtube]


Then, once you get the hang of it, try counting along with this vid. The songs start right in the middle, so you'll have some issues with finding the 1 if you don't solidly have it down. If you can count along with every song in this vid, you've pretty much got it.

[youtube]kOvD7jx0Tfc[/youtube]
 
And, now that I've taken the time to post all this, I can now rant and say that I fuckin hate how ballroom instructors count with the "slow slow fast fast slow." That just confuses the fuck out of beginners.

Anyway, I hope this helps. If you're not talking about ballroom dancing, then sorry I wasted your time.
 
UDRider said:
Yes I think this is what I am after. Problem is I don't know how to identify any of that. :( Tried searching online for some examples or something and came up blank. Probably because I am not sure what to search for.
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I'd say look into taking some basic music lessons. Learning how to recognize and break down rhythms naturally would really help you pick up the timing of your dances.

Just practice picking up the 'pulse' of a tune. It will usually be 1-2-3-4 or 1-2-3, Just don't try it with bands like Tool or Rush or Dream Theater :laughing
 
And, not to try to confuse you more, but things also change depending on whether you're dancing "on 1" or "on 2." The correct way to dance cha cha is "on 2," but sadly, they teach you to dance cha cha "on 1" in most ballroom classes.

On 1 = 1 2 cha cha cha
On 2 = 2 3 cha cha cha

The major difference is that when you dance "on 2" your cha cha step lines up with the "tumbao" in the music. If you listen to the beginning of the second song that I posted, you will hear a definite 2-beat hit on the conga on 4-and of every measure. If you're dancing "on 1," then your cha cha step will not align to the music.

So, before trying to train your ear to find the rhythms, you need to first understand if you're being taught to dance "on 1" or "on 2." I learned club cha cha, which is danced "on 2" and my mother learned ballroom cha cha which is danced "on 1." So, we have issues dancing with each other.
 
n10sive said:
Sounds like Tango.

Slow---slow--Tan--go---slow

If you have to count, and can't feel the beats...you're going to have a HARD road to ho.
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Yep Tango. :) I have a feeling it will be a hard road a head, but I like doing it. :(

Thanks wannabe, CABilly.

I'll listen to the vids you posted, hopefully it will help, and yes I can't even find a 1. Which is a first step. :(
 
Tango music is a completely different ball of wax. OK, let me give you an easy one to start with. There is a little snare roll on the 1 of every measure in this tango song. From there, it's just a matter of counting the rest. (edit: the snare roll actually ends on 1. It doesn't start on 1. Just thought I'd mention that so you didn't get confused.)

[youtube]ic4PQ-tnwJw[/youtube]

The problem is that not every tango song has a nice backbeat to help you out. But, this song is a good place for you to start with the counting. If you have trouble finding the 1 in this song, you're really gonna cry when a song without drums comes up.

Start with the first one. Once you get the hang of it, see if you can pick up the 1 in these songs.

[youtube]km6aN4PSa_c[/youtube]
 
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UDRider said:
Yep Tango. :) I have a feeling it will be a hard road a head, but I like doing it. :(

Thanks wannabe, CABilly.

I'll listen to the vids you posted, hopefully it will help, and yes I can't even find a 1. Which is a first step. :(
Click to expand...

With your classic tango beat, it's going to want to count it like 1. 2. And-threee-four. 1. 2. And-threee-four. The "and three-four" could sneak up on you if you count it that way and you'll be late, then have to rush to catch up. Get used to thinking through the whole thing as 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-1... Having that in your head will help keep you in time. You basically double the tempo in your mind and then the fast steps are not so fast. Once you get used to that it'll flow a lot easier.

You could try to get a metronome (there are phone apps, or a cheap ones at music shops). Pick a tempo and set it to play eighth notes. A smarter metronome will distinguish the 1 from the others, and the up beats from everything else. Eventually you'll start hearing it in every rhythmic sound you hear. Then you'll find yourself making up rhythms to normal sounds like your footsteps.
 
If you are trying to keep the beat then imo you are doing it wrong. Feel the music, feel your partner and glide. The beat is there just for the music and your steps do not have to be on beat.

I have one year of argentine tango under my belt and I am no expert.
 
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