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Mono-shock vs "Modern" Twin Shocks
- Thread starter Jasepaste
- Start date
NoneMoreBlack
flâneur
I don't disagree, but wouldn't it be possible to develop a damping/spring package that avoided this? Again, it would require huge development in order for dual shocks to equal single shock performance, but it is theoretically possible, right?
louemc
New member
who knows what will come, as technology changes and it is changing at an astounding pace, in suspension...
But...the market is single shock...and a manufacture puts the costs into where the returns are.
So don't hold your breath waiting for this.
NoneMoreBlack
flâneur
Right, I am not saying that it is something I or anybody else wants. I am just curious if the aforementioned shortcomings of dual shocks are actually innate to the technology, or if they are simply held back by the developmental priorities of manufacturers.
EastBayDave
- Kawasaki Fanatic -
CORRECTION:
Most riders don't ride hard enough to notice.
On another note I strongly believe a single shock is better, for the numerous reasons mentioned above, also including less weight/complexity.
The problem is, if you ride a dual-shocked bike, the prices of high-quality racing shocks is prohibitive for most folks ($1.5K+), so most of us will either have the stockers rebuilt, or go with something more reasonably priced.
BTW, I'm in the market for a good set of used duals.
louemc
New member
Both you and Corndog are right, Just sayin it differently.
Frankly a street rider should notice the difference...but it (at best) would be seen as a difference in brand quality, or adjustments made at a Suspension service ),called set-up.
Our public roads, can include Hella rough ones...so...major difference between back road bashers, and the riders that only ride smooth roads, in the choice of the ride getting made.
morthrane
Help I'* being Oppressed!
In a word, innate. The traditional twin shock doesn't have leverage like a monoshock+linkage, doesn't have the travel capability, and weighs more once you consider the additional frame strength required by a shock mounted so far from the center of gravity.
The real question is why we have twin shocks on the front suspension.
stangmx13
not Stan
In a word, innate. The traditional twin shock doesn't have leverage like a monoshock+linkage, doesn't have the travel capability, and weighs more once you consider the additional frame strength required by a shock mounted so far from the center of gravity.
The real question is why we have twin shocks on the front suspension.
that is a more fun question. IMO, its cuz racers like front-end feel more than they dislike brake dive and lefty forks arent strong enough for motorcycles yet.
ScottRNelson
Adventure and Dual Sport
There are other ways to get a single shock to work on the forks.
For example, the MotoCzysz fork shown in this patent image (too big to display here):
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7182357-0-large.jpg
stangmx13
not Stan
ahh, ya i forgot about Czysz. i wonder if that design has any actual benefits over the dampers being inside the forks.
now that i think about it, it wouldnt be too difficult to empty one fork, put a 30mm kit on the other and make it provide all the damping. thats just 1 shock right? ud even save a few pounds
ScottRNelson
Adventure and Dual Sport
Some of the current motocross bikes have compression in one fork and rebound in the other. That simplifies quite a few things.now that i think about it, it wouldnt be too difficult to empty one fork, put a 30mm kit on the other and make it provide all the damping. thats just 1 shock right? ud even save a few pounds
clutchslip
Not as fast as I look.
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- AMA #: 400179
Ohlins has done this for awhile on consumer upgrade forks. I don't buy that the tire is reacting the same on both sides while leaned over with completely different pressures. It's just not logical to me. Although, it is perfectly logical for their profitability.
stangmx13
not Stan
ya but u couldnt combine those cartridges back into one fork, just wouldnt work. motorcross bikes dont even have springs anymore, crazy kids riding dirtbikes without springs.
thats why axles have gotten very stiff. it really doesnt matter.
clutchslip
Not as fast as I look.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2004
- Location
- Corkscrew-me-Carousel
- Moto(s)
- Ones faster than I can ride them.
- Name
- Skippy Dog
- BARF perks
- AMA #: 400179
Try rolling this around with one arm resisting, and your other arm pulling or doing nothing, and tell me what happens. Then try it while turning and tell me what you think.
stangmx13
not Stan
Try rolling this around with one arm resisting, and your other arm pulling or doing nothing, and tell me what happens. Then try it while turning and tell me what you think.
that and my body wouldnt have the same constraints as a fork suspension setup. my wrists, elbows, and shoulders would bend where as the axle, forks, and triple clamp of a suspension would deflect only tiny amounts. the axle could rotate in my hands, my shoulders would extend and rotate, too much movement that a fork setup wont have. the comparison is not valid.
also, dont forget that the magnitude of damping force is at least 1 order less than the other forces involved here, probably much much less when the forks are almost bottomed and moving very slowly. so any extra deflection caused by uneven damping will be beyond miniscule. its not likely that u could record the "extra" by any means and a rider wont feel it.
Last edited:
NoneMoreBlack
flâneur
In a word, innate. The traditional twin shock doesn't have leverage like a monoshock+linkage, doesn't have the travel capability, and weighs more once you consider the additional frame strength required by a shock mounted so far from the center of gravity.
The real question is why we have twin shocks on the front suspension.
That answered my questions, thanks.
And I definitely agree that the continued dominance of "traditional" front suspension is very weird. Motocysz, Britten, Bimota Tesi, Vyrus, James Parker/RADD, etc...
EastBayDave
- Kawasaki Fanatic -
There's a number of street bikes doing that too. W/the KAW's it started w/the Z1000 many years ago. They are doing it on the 650's too...
IT WASN'T ME!
New member
I remember then they started putting long travel suspension on MX bikes back in the mid 70's. except for Yamaha, they were all dual shock arraignments. In fact, it wasn't until they started using a linkage on mono shocks that the industry switched over. Husky, Mako, and KTM all ran long travel dual shocks. They mounted them on an incline to get a rising rate as the suspension compressed and the angle changed. They also used stacked springs and progressive wound springs to create or adjust a rising rate. I think the mono shock with linkage made adjustment easer with less weight. And it looked cool too!
IT WASN'T ME!
New member
They also moved the pivot points of the shock forward on the frame and swing arm, so the shocks wouldn't have to be too long and to keep the velocities down inside the shock as well as minimize weight.