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Almost ran into the curb..

2wheeldragon

2wheeldragon

New member
Joined
Aug 18, 2012
Location
San jose
Moto(s)
2008 GSX-600R
Name
Sal
Hello Everyone,

Thankfully i didnt crash. But i did almost ran into the curb. I managed to break in time and lifted the back wheel off the ground a couple of inches.

Here is how it happened. I was headed back home and was on the last stretch of road that leads to my apartment complex. I was travelling at around 25-30mph. The road was empty so i figured i would practice my swerving which is a weak area for me. So i would imagine an obstacle on the ground and swerve around it. This went on for a bit. The road curves to the left later on, not very sharply, i should be able to make that turn easily at 25 in a car (and bike). I stopped swerving and prepared myself to turn. And i just couldnt turn. I did press down on the handle bars, but since im new to riding maybe i was conciously holding myself back from leaning the bike too much. My turn was not sharp enough and i ended up heading towards the curb.

The bike was leaned over and thankfully in the knick of time i remembered that i should straighten it and just brake before i run into the curb. So i imediately straightened the bike and pressed on the front brake stopping in the nick of time. In the process however, my rear wheel lifted of the ground a couple of inches but other than everything was thankfully fine.

As a newbie, im trying to analyze why i couldnt make that turn. Something similar has happened to me at speed as well (60-70mph), above a certain speed i am just unable to make a turn, the bike seems to want to stay upright. I might not be doing countersteering properly. When i conciously think about it and do it "right" by pressing into the handlebars the bike is very responsive, but then the fear kicks in about losing traction and i dont increase the lean too much. Then there are times when i try to initiate counter steering but i dont do it right as the bike is not as responsive as i know it has been when i do it "right".
I guess i could chalk it down to experience. I just wanted to know what you guys think.

Thank you
 
I think you should limit swerving to parking lots. I think you should use a dictionary to understand "brake" and "break." Last, I think you should read the TOS before you get ENCHANTED!
 
2wheeldragon said:
TOS?
Click to expand...
BARF Terms of Service. I think afm199 is implying that your post isn't appropriate for Crash Analysis. I disagree. Your desire to analyze your close call makes it entirely appropriate here.

You had just been practicing turning, but then you came to the left-hand bend and had a hard time getting the bike turned. What felt different when you tried to steer the bike through the curve compared to steering the bike through a swerve in your drill? Any apprehension about leaning the bike in the drill?

We should also talk about steering the motorcycle. You write: "I did press down on the handle bars..." That's not how you do it. You press forward on the inside bar. You were approaching a left-hand curve, so the input needed to make the bike lean and turn left was to press forward on the left bar.
SLOW to the speed at which you want to take the turn.
Turn your head and LOOK in the direction of the turn.
PRESS on the inside bar to lean the bike and initiate the turn.
Slowly and smoothly ROLL on the gas.​
 
Slow down. This will prevent this type of near collision in the future.
 
Mount a gopro to the back of your bike (so you can see your body position as well as bike and the road), or have someone follow you and record you doing some maneuvers.

I'd bet that you are fighting/negating the lean of the bike with your body position. Also, because this isn't your first time, have you though about seeking professional criticism on riding? Be it the MSF, Advanced riders course, private coaching, or similar?

If you're serious about not wrecking where a truck can come hit you without expecting and/or seeing you, you may want to buy a few dozen tennis balls and cut them in half and set them up in a clear parking lot (minimal lights/curb/tire stoppers, oil stains etc.) and practice there. The street is a pretty stupid place to try to learn to swerve around imaginary obstacles when there are many more real obstacles just waiting.

You can find parking lot drills online. MSF, CHP, etc all have variations of them. Here's a good start: http://www.gwrra.org/regional/ridered/PLP Program/GWRRAMotorcyclePLPFacilitator'sManual_4_08.pdf
 
@Datadan: I think there was some apprehension about getting the bike to lean over and leaning with it. I have bought a used bike and the tires seem to be okay but earlier on i was reading a crash analysis post by DaveT319 (before the ride) and i was paranoid of the tires losing traction. Also during the drill if i think back on it i dont think i was swerving as much as weaving (getting used to pressing forward to turn). So i think i was not even coming close to the limits of how much i could lean. I guess i was just scared.

@Rei: yes thats the plan. although i think i could have taken that turn at that speed. My friend was driving behind me in the car and mentioned that i should have made the turn.

@splat: Thanks for the link! that is gold! and you are right. it was very stupid of me to try to practice on the road. Point noted. I will be going to the parking lot tonight and practicing the ones you posted.
I am actually considering doing the advanced riders course after a few hundred miles. I just gave the MSF beginner course a month or two ago. Its not too early to take the advanced course is it?

As a new rider i am just freaking out, theres a lot of pressure from family and friends about giving it up and that i made a mistake. But i love riding. I just want to be as safe as i can be on the bike which is why i did what i did (stupid to do it on the road). Earlier on today i was traveling at 70mph on highway 87 and this guy infront of my threw out a shopping bag out of the window. It was right in my path and i thought about swerving, i think i initiated it half heartedly, the bike didnt swerve just moved to the side a lil bit. i still ran over the shopping bag. That was scary. At those speeds its even more scarier and i lock up. I think i need to take it easy for a bit and just limit myself to the parking lot. What say you guys?

Thank you all for your valuable input. I really appreciate it.
 
As a new rider (oh some 8 years ago), I remember having the same problem. I'd want to turn but for some reason the bike wouldn't turn. You are probably stiffening your arms way too much on the bike. It's instictive to do this when you're on the first few thousand miles of riding.

Try doing this; when you're on the bike, use your torso/core to keep your body upright rather than pushing against your handle bars with your arms. Your arms should be loose with a fluid-like feel to them. If need be, use your legs and hips to grip the tank.

Also, slightly change the angle of your arms. Make them as paralell to the ground as possible rather than perpendicular. In other words, look at your forearms and try to make them straight with the ground (parallel). This will give you 100% input on steering. Now once you get this down, practice makes perfect.

Press on the handlebar in the direction you want to turn (ie: if turning right, press on the right handle bar with your right hand). DO NOT FIGHT THE HANDLE BAR WITH THE OPPOSITE HAND. What that means is, if you are turning right, and are pressing with your right hand, sometimes you instinctively grip the left handle bar with your left hand and make it very stiff and tense. Be LOOSE with the bars and you will turn every time :)

What steers the bike (contrary to popular belief) is handle bar input (countersteering). If you do not do this properly and are very stiff on the bars or using your body weight rather than handlebar inputs, then it will feel difficult to steer.

You're lucky you're on a gixxer and not on a 700lbs touring bike.. otherwise you'd always go straight :rofl
 
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One other factor would be "target fixation". Were you staring at the curb fearing that you were going to hit it? Remember that where you look, most times, the bike follows -- you should be looking through the turn, where you want to go.
 
Good thing you started on a small bike but maybe next time hit the brakes not the breaks
 
Dear OP, the fact that you did a brakie (even unintentionally) tells me that you have a good feel of your front brake and took it to its limit. That is something to be happy about because it saved your bacon. Back to your post, braking and swerving don't mix. You got away (learned a lesson) cheap! Read up online why swerving is nearly impossible without letting go of the front brake before swerving. IMHO, you should swerve only if you know you are not gonna stop in time. Now that you have done a brakie, you know how much stopping power you got. Stopping without hitting the object is infinitely better than swerving. Another humble opinion is this; you should only attempt a swerve if your stopping distance is not gonna make it and if the object you want to avoid is not traveling, i.e swerving is likely not a good idea with a left turning car, a car running a stop sign into your path, or even a deer on the road. The reason I say this is because motorcycles usually have good stopping power and hitting the object with most of your speed scrubbed off may still be better than swerving if you do not know what is around the object or if the object will move while you're swerving. With that said, if the object is stopped and you can see daylight, and you know your skills, let go of the brake, push hard on the handle bar (and I mean push hard) and swerve, push hard on the handle bar again if there is a 2nd obstacle. If done right, you would be shocked with what calamity you have just avoided. Practice this at your own risk. I know moto cops practice it all the time with cones on the road until it is second nature to them. However, cops have taxpayers paying for their practice mishaps. You and I do not. Good luck, happy and safe riding.
 
Great reply Hank. Great advice not I only for him but for us as well. Thanks.
 
Looks like all the salient issues have been properly identified and addressed: countersteering! (try practicing with one hand), target fixation, etc.

Let me throw a couple of pennies atcha. Get new tires. If they're squared, new tires will feel like a whole new bike. This will mitigate your apprehension. However, please do keep some fear. That is an aweful quick bike you have there and some trepidation will help to keep you alive.

Practice until it becomes reflex. Because until then, it is just a dice throw.
 
Some low-risk practice with getting used to counter-steering and leaning for me was riding around on my old beater mountain bike. A lot lighter and more manageable and a lot less of a concern if dropped or crashed somehow. Instead of just turning, I started actually counter-steering and leaning on it, while studying the motions I had as second nature from just learning how to ride a bike when I was 4 to apply later to my motorcycle. Not a whole lot of surface area for traction on its tires, but that just reminded me that my motorcycle has more. A bicycle won't help you manage the weight of your motorcycle so well, but if it's the actual act and idea of counter-steering giving you trouble, could be worth trying.

The concept is odd for counter-steering. If you want to do some studying, pick up A Twist of the Wrist II. Has some tried and true info in it.
 
Actually, this almost crash analysis was closer than the OP thinks.

"So i imediately straightened the bike and pressed on the front brake stopping in the nick of time. In the process however, my rear wheel lifted of the ground a couple of inches but other than everything was thankfully fine."

This was not a good move.
What the OP did in this situation was load the front suspension prior to hitting the curb. Had he been going faster, OP would now be a member of the over-the-bars club.
 
afm199 said:
This is Crash Analysis. Not Close Call analysis! The General section works fine for that. Should we now discuss close crashes because the brake lever fell off?
Click to expand...

I would put these kinds of questions in Training. General, ahem, has too many trolls.

Not that I would ever participate in such crass behavior.
 
DataDan said:
We should also talk about steering the motorcycle. You write: "I did press down on the handle bars..." That's not how you do it. You press forward on the inside bar. You were approaching a left-hand curve, so the input needed to make the bike lean and turn left was to press forward on the left bar.
SLOW to the speed at which you want to take the turn.
Turn your head and LOOK in the direction of the turn.
PRESS on the inside bar to lean the bike and initiate the turn.
Slowly and smoothly ROLL on the gas.​
Click to expand...

I think this is an important point, which should be reiterated.

To counter steer, you do not push down. You press forward.

countersteering.jpg
 
Almost crashed. Is it like almost pregnant?:newbie
 
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