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Are dealerships delusional about used bike prices?

T

ToAdventure

New member
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Location
Part of the year So Cal, Part of the year Emeryvil
Moto(s)
Just got my license and am looking for a CBR250
Hi all,

I'm newly licensed so please excuse my ignorance but, I've been looking for a used CBR for over a month now and haven't been able to find a price that I think is fair. I am pre approved for a bank loan for 3k ( and at the time of approval, I thought that was a pretty realistic budget) but after weeks and weeks of searching.. I am still without a bike.

I've read some advice that Nada and KBB aren't REALLY the most accurate sources for bike values as location and time of year contribute to the overall demand / selling price of the bike.

But.. I do feel like calculating the trade in value and adding 15-20% is a fair starting point for negotiations. But these guys.. they are expecting close to what a new bike costs for a bike that is 3-4 years old and that obviously been dropped. I understand that when buying a new bike there are additional fees but.. Paying those fees for a new bike comes with a warranty of at least a year and used bikes do not.

Perhaps it is because I am a woman, and newly licensed but I'm very straight forward and tell them that I'm looking for 2,500 out the door and most of the time.. they don't even come back with an offer to counter.

Am I negotiating wrong? Am I delusional? I work in a field with lots of men and they all say that as a new rider I shouldn't buy anything new and that the 2500-3000 range is totally reasonable
 
Cedric, she's looking for a 250 rather than a 600.

I'm not sure how reasonable KBB is on them if it's that low. The cheapest I see on CL is posted at $3000. You then have to add tax and other DMV stuff on it, so even without dealer fees it would likely end up at $3500ish once it's in your name. You're unlikely to find one for $2500 OTD anywhere, but if you do it won't be from a dealer.

The guys saying $2500-3000 are probably speaking of base price rather than OTD, but it'll be hard to find one on the low end of that.
 
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ToAdventure said:
Am I negotiating wrong? Am I delusional? I work in a field with lots of men and they all say that as a new rider I shouldn't buy anything new and that the 2500-3000 range is totally reasonable
Click to expand...

Which CBRs are you looking at? CBR250R? CBR600 F4/F4i? CBR600RR?

$2500-3000 is reasonable for a very old bike (I paid $3000 for my 2003 Yamaha FZ1) or a moderately-old small-displacement bike. If you want a CBR250R, you have to keep in mind that they're all relatively new and likely have low miles. This may cause owners to think they're more valuable than they really are ("I paid $5K out the door and it barely has any miles so of course it's worth $4K").

If I could offer one piece of advice, it would be this: don't buy a used motorcycle from a dealer. You'll end up paying more for the bike than you would by buying directly from an owner through Craig's List and, in my experience, you're not going to get any advantage from going through a dealer. The bikes aren't necessarily of better quality than Craig's List bikes nor are you necessarily going to get better customer support if you buy through a dealer. If you have problems with the bike, you're still going to get the same universally shitty dealer service that you'd get if you were some random person walking in off the street.
 
As someone who gets low balled DAILY in my work, I would say that it is NOT helpful to be speaking in "OTD" terms. If you are going to negotiate, do it on the price of the BIKE only. Figure your own OTD at about 10-11% of purchase price of the bike. Also, this isn't a very expensive item- Take $1,000 off of the asking price on the $25,000 car is a much different request than taking the same amount off of a $4,000 bike. Be reasonable with the dealers, just because the bike doesn't fit into your budget, doesn't mean they are asking too much.

After all of that, I strongly suggest buying private party on something like this. Again, the shops are not doing a ton of recon work like they do to get a car ready to be put on their lot. They are probably cleaning the chain and changing the oil, then sticking a for sale sign on it. CL is full of people who had the money to go new, thought they would ride, have put 700 miles on it and now ________ (Insert life event which prevents usage of a bike here)...... Best of luck finding the perfect bike for you!!!
 
Been mentioned twice (so far).
Go private party (not dealership) for best deal on a used moto.
Not sure if your bank pre-approval is applicable to a private party sale though.
If not maybe a signature loan for cash then buy?
 
Wow.

Thanks guys. This has totally changed my perspective. I should have specified a few things:

My bank loan stipulates that the earliest year available to financing is 2009. I don't have the money out of pocket so financing is really my only option. All the advice about "out the door pricing
 
2Snarky said:
As someone who gets low balled DAILY in my work, I would say that it is NOT helpful to be speaking in "OTD" terms. If you are going to negotiate, do it on the price of the BIKE only. Figure your own OTD at about 10-11% of purchase price of the bike. Also, this isn't a very expensive item- Take $1,000 off of the asking price on the $25,000 car is a much different request than taking the same amount off of a $4,000 bike. Be reasonable with the dealers, just because the bike doesn't fit into your budget, doesn't mean they are asking too much.

After all of that, I strongly suggest buying private party on something like this. Again, the shops are not doing a ton of recon work like they do to get a car ready to be put on their lot. They are probably cleaning the chain and changing the oil, then sticking a for sale sign on it. CL is full of people who had the money to go new, thought they would ride, have put 700 miles on it and now ________ (Insert life event which prevents usage of a bike here)...... Best of luck finding the perfect bike for you!!!
Click to expand...
The problem is that some dealers will let you negotiate down the price of the bike itself and then just tack on more paperwork fees.
 
Banks use Kelley or Nada as a way to calculate the value of "collateral" for loans. For example, some will lend the entire amount of retail book, including t&l, others will want the borrower to cover T&L. There are variations on this theme, depending on the lender and the borrower's credit worthiness.

They just don't want to end up with a repo that is not worth what the borrower owes....cuz they are banks! (not motorcycle collectors)
 
To answer the original question, yes, dealers are delusional about the prices of bikes new or used. The best thing you can do for your negotiating position is to walk out the door and don't be in a hurry. If they try to raise the price, add fees that don't exist, get you to "put down a deposit", or anything other than selling you the bike at the agreed-upon price, just get up and leave.
 
My oldest son and I have bought our last four bikes-all used- at motojava at ninth and bryant in sf. They do an outstanding job of refurbishing, and their prices are fair. Check out their website as they put their stuff up there. motojava.com
 
Has anyone gone through the Costco program to buy a bike?

Worth it? Hassle-free? Same as walking into a dealer and haggling?
 
Dan21774 said:
Has anyone gone through the Costco program to buy a bike?

Worth it? Hassle-free? Same as walking into a dealer and haggling?
Click to expand...

Its like buying a car. You have to specifically put the bike you want, you come in and the costco dude/salesman that takes care of these transactions. They show you said price that is OTD and thats it. Basically no setup and freight fees. But the price they give you is if you get your own financing. Not through the dealer. I got quoted i think about 5500 OTD for a CRF250L at fremont. I never bought it, I just wanted to know how they work. If you think you can haggle without the program then good luck. Some dealers will not put up with you BS cheapness and will look for the other schmoe that will pay full price. After all we have the greatest weather here for riding.
 
Almost always...

Also it's SPRINGTIME and this is an optimal time for bike Selling, not buying.

Getting decent gear is also going to add up, so don't forget that part.
 
ToAdventure said:
But.. I do feel like calculating the trade in value and adding 15-20%...
Click to expand...

Trade in value is what the dealer 'pays' the person selling them bike. Retail value is what they charge someone trying to buy the bike. You are conflating the two and doing clever math to try to game it. You should be looking at retail value and trying to negotiate from there based on condition of the bike + supply/demand.

That being said a 2.5-3k budget should get you a good beginner bike.

Are you only considering the CBR 250? the Ninja 250 gets a lot a dap around these parts so might be worth expanding your search. And keep in mind that, at least with the Ninja, these entry level bikes keep their value pretty well. You will most likely be able to sell it for close to what you paid for it (you know for when you upgrade to the turbo 'busa in 3months.).

and +1 on MotoJava
and if you're in the S.Bay Evolution has also been good to me
 
vizcarmb said:
Its like buying a car. You have to specifically put the bike you want, you come in and the costco dude/salesman that takes care of these transactions. They show you said price that is OTD and thats it. Basically no setup and freight fees. But the price they give you is if you get your own financing. Not through the dealer. I got quoted i think about 5500 OTD for a CRF250L at fremont. I never bought it, I just wanted to know how they work. If you think you can haggle without the program then good luck. Some dealers will not put up with you BS cheapness and will look for the other schmoe that will pay full price. After all we have the greatest weather here for riding.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I may check into it to see the process/pricing
 
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