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Audi RS6 Avant Wagon

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weak_link

Hugh Jasole
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Location
Brentwood
Moto(s)
Multistrada 1200S Touring, 1992 VRF 750f
Name
Eric
Hi Barf,

Long time, no talk.

Do we have an opinion on overpriced sports wagons? IDK why, but they are my thing. I can't come anywhere close to paying for the new m5 wagon and can barely afford a cpo Audi RS6 Avant Wagon. Am I chasing the dragon here or has anyone owned a one who can convince me not to want one? Seriously, tell me why I don't want one. My impulse control is weak and I need someone, y'all, to talk some sense into me. I love the idea of sports wagon performance with almost SUV-like space to pack up weekend project supplies from HD or Lowes. We also need storage space for habitual overpackers without feeling cramped or as if we need to put stuff in the back seat. Folding seats sound great. I'm currently in a Lexus ES350 squish-mobile for comparison.
My BMW ownership experience was less than fantastic and I'm a little gunshy on German cars. This would be a big commitment for me but after my accident last year bikes are becoming less viable and cars are becoming more appealing. I know, it sucks, but taking my bff on long-distance rides if I don't have total confidence in my shoulder to put the bike where I want it, when I want it our there makes me nervous.
Talk me out of doing stupid shit and making a very expensive mistake.

OR....did/ do you own one and love it? Inquiring minds want to know!
thx,
W_L
 
No Eric. Won't talk you out of them.

I was really close to pulling the trigger on a (used) RS6 wagon (Mamba Green), and passed when I read the driving reviews. Like my S8, it drives great until pushed and then, the steering and brakes get a bit too electric assisted.

While the audi looks better, the AMG 63 Merc is the better choice. Both hold their value instanely well. Pro tip: if you're gonna keep miles low and aim for retained value, pick a "shock" color and not the traditional white/ Black/ Silver/ Blue.

Both cars rip, none the less.
 
Wunderwagens? Don’t threaten me with a good time!

The RS6 Avant and its sister car within the VW group, the Panamera Turbo S Sport Turismo, are exactly what you think they are. More practical versions of absurdly fast sedans. You’ve got a shitload of power from a decent sounding twin turbo V8, all wheel drive to put the power down, and your typical German large sedan driving dynamics. Stuff like rear steering can help “shrink” the way the car feels if you hustle it along on a backroad. But eventually if you push them hard enough, there’s no hiding that you’re in a rather large vehicle.

Berto’s right, the E63S is the better car. I do believe you’re going to feel a bit more shove from this compared to even the slightly more powerful Porsche. Having quite a bit of experience with the powertrains in the VW twins and the one in this Mercedes…I very much think this is the better engine over the VW group cars. And better transmission over Audi and maybe the Porsche too.

Let me expand on that a bit. On the surface, both engines look like they copied each other, since they are both 90 degree 4.0L V8s with direct injection and two twin scroll turbos in the “hot vee” layout. Actually, BMW’s 4.4L really was the one both of these copied from. Peel back a layer or two and you see the differences. The VW engine is perfectly square 86mm bore and stroke. The AMG engine is under square at 83mm bore and 92mm stroke. Wait I thought we like over square for high performance? A new Ducati engine is insanely over square. That’s great in a high strung supersports bike where you’ll likely be spending a ton of time in the top half of the rpm range. For a heavy ass street driven car, under square gives you more low to mid range torque. A side benefit is that is gives the engine a better sound. In this case the handbuilt (the VW ones just get built on mass production lines) AMG V8 does have a deeper raspier note to it. Having seen a lot of the bits and pieces that make both engines tick, there’s just better engineering in the AMG one. Moving to the transmission, the Audi uses the ubiquitous ZF8 which everyone and their brother uses. Which is perfectly fine. It’s a solid unit and there’s a reason it’s in so many other manufacturers vehicles, even the 1000+hp Dodge Demon 170. Mercedes didn’t buy in a transmission like VW did. The E63S uses the 9G-tronic, which yes means 9 speeds instead of 8. But this particular 9G-tronic is the MCT Speedshift version which uses a wet multiplate clutch instead of a conventional torque converter. Super fast shifting, especially the downshifts. But the fastest shifting still goes to the double clutch transmission in the Panamera. The PDK 8 speed is uses definitely can shift faster, and from a performance standpoint is better…but sometimes you still gotta drive it to do mundane stuff. And I’ve noticed that that PDK equipped powertrain act a little weird at slow speed. Make some slow speed parking lot maneuvers, and you’ll feel a bit of “trailer hitching” sometimes which is a bit off putting for such an expensive car.

The 2021+ E63S got a bunch of updates and such, so I definitely wouldn’t consider an earlier one. Sounds like you’re going CPO, so a 2021 is right there in your wheelhouse. Audi has an updated RS6 out this year and an updated Panamera hits next year, but those are brand new cars and will be out of the budget I imagine.

The Mercedes probably feels the least “premium” inside. The Audi looks like a spaceship…the KMS Fingerprintseverywhere. Though there are some cheaper Audi touches if you look hard enough. And the Porsche feels like they spent the most money on it.


And if I may offer a dark horse up here in the wagon dance off. The 2024 Volvo V60 T8. Of course not as fast as ze Germans. But you dip a toe in the EV waters since this is a “Recharge” Volvo and is a PHEV. Obviously going to get way better gas mileage than those V8 boys, or not use any gas at all if you use it right. The gas/electric setup produce a combined 500+hp I believe and is good for maybe a 0-60 blast right around 4 flat. Bonus points for having genuine Öhlins adjustable shocks too. And even brand spanking new, it’s definitely cheaper than the others. Give it a look.
 
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Whatever German muscle wagon you end up with, just make sure you trade it in before the warranty runs out :laughing
 
After seeing a few tear down videos of Audi engines no way would I buy one used out of warranty. Seems they have little consideration to ease of maintenance or durability.
 
“Overpriced”

Here’s the reason someday everyone will be buying Kirkland brand squishmobile type o beer and ordering Amazing Basics products… because everything else is overpriced. :laughing

The car is probably good, but it’s pricey and would come with pricey problems. :dunno
 
I'd have any RS series Avant over whatever Merc is offering that is similar and certainly over anything American purporting to be a performance wagon.
 
1Lingenfelter-Olds-442-Vista-Cruiser-2-license.png
 
Ohhhhhhh... a 442 Vista Cruiser. It better have the W30 package! :x

As for the Cadillac Sportwagon, yeah it's got AWD, but you really want the "V Wagon" !!! :teeth
 
oooooh lots of bonus points with that "lingenfelter".

could never go camping/skitrip/snow/dirt with that one.

always gonna get scratched in the costco/whole foods parking lot.

gonna attract "the wrong" ... kinda attention.

:later
 
951dude said:
Just get a real driver's car, the 911.

it will still be worth something in 5 years.
Click to expand...

yup. IMO, no driving enthusiast would choose any other. and not that it matters, but buy the right one and in 10 years it will be worth more than you paid for it.

Abacinator said:
Whatever German muscle wagon you end up with, just make sure you trade it in before the warranty runs out :laughing
Click to expand...

more like - whatever german you buy, it’s pay to play from the moment you light it up. welcome to the playground. downshift and accelerate. welcome to german engineering. paying the freight starts the moment you get the key in your hand ($1,000 per rear tire anyone?), and it never ends. but then, neither does the pure exhilaration.
 
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I'll yield to folks like Berto and Rob who are in the industry and can opine professionally on the matter, but I highly doubt anyone that has bought a 911 in the last 10-15 years has seen an increase in value over the time they've owned the car. In fact, I think the only way that could've (maybe) possibly happened is if they bought the car with less than 10 miles on the odometer and never drove it and even then, what the hell is the point of buying a 911 and never driving it? Regardless, almost no vehicle on the market today is an investment and purchasing anything with the intent that it will be is just a foolish waste of money...IMO, of course. :twofinger

That said, the OP wants a wagon for a reason and I suspect whatever he buys will be a daily driver in which case a 911 makes absolutely no practical sense whatsoever.

:drool

2024-audi-rs6-performance-motion-front-1669663114.jpg


ogi1-2022-audi-rs6-avant-002.jpg
 
Kornholio said:
I'll yield to folks like Berto and Rob who are in the industry and can opine professionally on the matter, but I highly doubt anyone that has bought a 911 in the last 10-15 years has seen an increase in value over the time they've owned the car. In fact, I think the only way that could've (maybe) possibly happened is if they bought the car with less than 10 miles on the odometer and never drove it and even then, what the hell is the point of buying a 911 and never driving it? Regardless, almost no vehicle on the market today is an investment and purchasing anything with the intent that it will be is just a foolish waste of money...IMO, of course. :twofinger

That said, the OP wants a wagon for a reason and I suspect whatever he buys will be a daily driver in which case a 911 makes absolutely no practical sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Just like Corvette, the 911 can most certainly work in the “if I can only have one car” situation. It’s one of the handful of sports cars that can be comfortable when you need it to be, has decent cargo room, gas mileage, and most importantly…is reliable enough to pile a shitload of miles on. I daily drove a ‘Vette and had nothing else for almost 10 years. Only a handful of situations came along where I needed something like a truck or whatever. But…I don’t have kids. If I did, then no way. Even with most 911’s cartoonishly small back seats, there just no way you want to use a 911 as an only car. Still maybe could daily if you also had a bigger suv/sedan to handle the family duties.

Anyways. Quite a few 911s have made their original owners a profit. You’ve gotta pick the right one (and wow are there a lot of variants), treat it gently, and you’ll do just fine on resale. Base Carrera that you daily drove and had oil changes done at the corner garage? Not gonna do so well. Turbo S or GT car that had dealer services done? You’ll be pleasantly surprised. The general rule is that if it’s a car that isn’t usually just sitting around in dealer inventory and you gotta wait 6-24 months to buy one, there’s always going to be a good demand on the secondary market for those who don’t want to wait. But the catch is you gotta treat it gently. Those people will pay new prices for used cars, but it’s still gotta be pretty fresh. I don’t mean stick it in a bubble and never drive it. But you can’t pile a lot of miles on it and can’t thrash it on a track or wherever. Which I agree with you wholeheartedly, and it begs the question…what the hell did you buy it for in the first place then if you’re not going to experience what the car can do? If you just want a short term investment, just get a CD or put the money in the S&P 500 or something like that. If you only going to once in a blue moon, may as well just Turo one for a weekend and invest all that money elsewhere. I see a lot of these things get treated like an expensive Patek Philippe watch or something. They buy, drive it to a cars and coffee a few times a year for the flex, then flip it after a year or two later with hardly any miles on them and get all their money back.

I still see 991 series 911 GT3s (not even the GT3RS) trading for good money. And that car is a full generation old. The 992 series car is (arguably) a far superior 911 in just about every way. Check this out…

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/listing/379985246

Almost 10 years old, and that’s what that damn thing sold for new. My Corvette is not the garden variety Stingray so there’s a rarity factor here, but at five years old I could get all my money back if not a little more. If I had been “gentle” with it, probably 50% more than what I paid for it. But I didn’t buy it to be a clout chaser and/or be an investment.
 
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BMW is allegedly bringing an M5 Touring to the US for 2025. Starting at $140k :shocker
 
Sport wagons, without anything on the roof??

I felt the need back in '86 with a Subaru Turbo wagon.
I wanted a roof line to haul sail boards, and skiing.
Down sized from a 74 Plymouth wagon that I used to haul a jet ski, and sail boards.
That rolling wreck leaked every vital fluid except battery acid. I bought it after I sold my pickup, while waiting for the Subaru.
 
Why not consider a new or very recent A6 Allroad? It may not have the unicorn status of A6 Avant wagon but the Allroad is still quick, drives nice, has Audi luxury.
 
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