Bandit battery didnt start 2nd time in a week. Only 1 yearish old

[cozy]

So I tried testing again about 30 minutes after previous attempt with battery in motorcycle with key off then starting motorcycle ( though again motorcycle didn't successfully start as shown in video in my previous post.

I think I set dial to correct setting this time, when a few minutes ago ( about 30 minutes after previous test with wrong settings in bike and start attempt) with battery removed from motorcycle and brought inside, dial set to DCV 20, reading shows around 12.57.

 

[motomania2007]

So I tried testing again about 30 minutes after previous attempt with battery in motorcycle with key off then starting motorcycle ( though again motorcycle didn't successfully start as shown in video in my previous post.

I think I set dial to correct setting this time, when a few minutes ago ( about 30 minutes after previous test with wrong settings in bike and start attempt) with battery removed from motorcycle and brought inside, dial set to DCV 20, reading shows around 12.57.

That's good step 1 of about 8:
Next test the voltage of the battery with the engine running at about 3000 rpm. Check it using the 20 vdc rage like you just did AND switch the voltmeter to AC volts and measure the battery voltage with the engine running at 3000 rpm and post your numbers
For your AC measurements, start at an AC volt range on the meter that can read at least 75 volts. Then continue reducing the AC volts range step by step to the minimum AC volts range

 

[cozy]

That's good step 1 of about 8:
Next test the voltage of the battery with the engine running at about 3000 rpm. Check it using the 20 vdc rage like you just did AND switch the voltmeter to AC volts and measure the battery voltage with the engine running at 3000 rpm and post your numbers
For your AC measurements, start at an AC volt range on the meter that can read at least 75 volts. Then continue reducing the AC volts range step by step to the minimum AC volts range

Im assuming you mean after recharging it again ( this will be 3rd time in a week ) since it didnt successfully start all the way this evening again. So Im going to to reconnect it to charger again in a few minutes.

I just retested after its been removed from Bandit for about 3 hours. So any surface charge is gone. It showed around 12.60.

Pardon my cursing at poorly made products - this brand new multimeter the connections of wires to multimeter are quite jangly, poorly fitting and dont click and stay in very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZZc1gfAnaQ

 

[motomania2007]

Im assuming you mean after recharging it again ( this will be 3rd time in a week ) since it didnt successfully start all the way this evening again. So Im going to to reconnect it to charger again in a few minutes.

I just retested after its been removed from Bandit for about 3 hours. So any surface charge is gone. It showed around 12.60.

Pardon my cursing at poorly made products - this brand new multimeter the connections of wires to multimeter are quite jangly, poorly fitting and dont click and stay in very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZZc1gfAnaQ

1) please don't assume anything.
2) follow instructions exactly as written because we need accurate, very specific data.
3) if the bike won't start, what is it doing when you are attempting to start it and what is the battery voltage WHILE pressing the starter button?

 

[cozy]

1) please don't assume anything.
2) follow instructions exactly as written because we need accurate, very specific data.
3) if the bike won't start, what is it doing when you are attempting to start it and what is the battery voltage WHILE pressing the starter button?

The bike tries to turn over but doesn't successfully do so fully to start, as shown in the video posted previously-
https://youtu.be/VNqmqVAyvNM

I'll go out again after finishing recharging battery and retrst dcv at 20 setting correctly this time.

Well, it has to be recharged in order to test it at 3000 rpms since it again didn't start today after being recharged 2nd time and starting then a few days ago. So had to assume that.


" For your AC measurements, start at an AC volt range on the meter that can read at least 75 volts. Then continue reducing the AC volts range step by step to the minimum AC volts range"

Looking at the multimeter I bought i don't see any setting for dial indicating 75 volts nor how to reduce that incrementally.

 

[Gary856]

That's good step 1 of about 8:
Next test the voltage of the battery with the engine running at about 3000 rpm. Check it using the 20 vdc rage like you just did AND switch the voltmeter to AC volts and measure the battery voltage with the engine running at 3000 rpm and post your numbers
For your AC measurements, start at an AC volt range on the meter that can read at least 75 volts. Then continue reducing the AC volts range step by step to the minimum AC volts range

Alternator output voltage is rectified to DC when it reaches the battery, so why would you switch to AC setting to measure voltage at the battery (with the engine running)?

 

[motomania2007]

Alternator output voltage is rectified to DC when it reaches the battery, so why would you switch to AC setting to measure voltage at the battery (with the engine running)?

To make sure the rectifier is working properly.
Rectifiers are full wave rectifiers and if 1/2 of the rectifier has failed, it will put out 12vdc fr the 1/2 that is working and a AC voltage maybe riding on that 12vdc
Feeding AC to the battery will kill it prematurely.

 

[motomania2007]

The bike tries to turn over but doesn't successfully do so fully to start, as shown in the video posted previously-
https://youtu.be/VNqmqVAyvNM

I'll go out again after finishing recharging battery and retrst dcv at 20 setting correctly this time.

Well, it has to be recharged in order to test it at 3000 rpms since it again didn't start today after being recharged 2nd time and starting then a few days ago. So had to assume that.


" For your AC measurements, start at an AC volt range on the meter that can read at least 75 volts. Then continue reducing the AC volts range step by step to the minimum AC volts range"

Looking at the multimeter I bought i don't see any setting for dial indicating 75 volts nor how to reduce that incrementally.

Start with AC range at the highest setting and write down the range and the AC volts measured
Then go to the next lower range and write down the range and the voltage
Repeat for each ACvoltage range

 

[cozy]

Tested a few minutes after recharged battery for the 3rd time, this is just a few minutes after disconnecting from recharger after it turned green. Just to see what it shows. Seems about the same as before I connected recharger.

https://youtu.be/t-M0EbLlHcU

 

[ST Guy]

First off, what the heck are you doing a check on a DC system with an AC setting. The only time you use AC on a motorcycle is when you’re checking one pair of three pairs of wires coming directly from the stator. All other meter settings should be on the DC setting.

 

[ST Guy]

And what is the voltage with the battery installed and engine at 3-4000 rpm? It is not necessary to have a fully charged battery for this check.

 

[ST Guy]

How long ago was the battery drained by leaving the switch on? And more importantly, how much time passed between leaving the switch on and discovering your error?

Once you know what your charging voltage is, we can very likely say you have a bad battery and to get a new one.

There are two primary tests you can do on a battery. The first is a voltage test as you’ve done. The second is a load test which measures the amperage/capacity of the battery. And FYI, you can have a decent voltage test result and still have a bad battery, usually from sulfation that occurs when you let the battery sit in a discharged state. What sulfation does to a battery is it damages the plates inside the battery, usually permanently. And it doesn’t happen uniformly on all surfaces. So, a damaged battery can show a decent voltage, as yours did, but since not all the plates are fully functioning, you essentially have a smaller battery which is not up to the heavy duty job of running the starter motor. Think of your battery this way. If you were to hook up 8 AAA or even D cells, you’ll get 12.8 volts. A fully charged battery. However, there’s no way in hell that “battery” has the capacity to run the starter motor.

I’m betting that while you can charge your battery to a good level, there’s just not enough of the battery inside the case to do the job its asked to do.

If your charging system check is good (14.4 volts, give or take a little), then get yourself a new battery and you should be good to go.

I would get a Yuasa battery, making sure it’s an AGM. The best way is to get the battery without the acid installed. That way you can put the acid in (the battery should come with instructions on how to do this), let the acid sit for a couple hours, then hook up the charger overnight, and then let it sit for another two hours before checking the voltage. If 12.8 or close, install and ride.

If your buying a battery with the acid installed, bring your volt meter and check the voltage before buying. It should be 12.6 volts minimum. I do this to avoid buying a battery that’s sat around on the shelf too long. Lead acid batteries self discharge, even when not connected to anything.

 

[cozy]

How long ago was the battery drained by leaving the switch on? And more importantly, how much time passed between leaving the switch on and discovering your error?

Once you know what your charging voltage is, we can very likely say you have a bad battery and to get a new one.

There are two primary tests you can do on a battery. The first is a voltage test as you’ve done. The second is a load test which measures the amperage/capacity of the battery. And FYI, you can have a decent voltage test result and still have a bad battery, usually from sulfation that occurs when you let the battery sit in a discharged state. What sulfation does to a battery is it damages the plates inside the battery, usually permanently. And it doesn’t happen uniformly on all surfaces. So, a damaged battery can show a decent voltage, as yours did, but since not all the plates are fully functioning, you essentially have a smaller battery which is not up to the heavy duty job of running the starter motor. Think of your battery this way. If you were to hook up 8 AAA or even D cells, you’ll get 12.8 volts. A fully charged battery. However, there’s no way in hell that “battery” has the capacity to run the starter motor.

I’m betting that while you can charge your battery to a good level, there’s just not enough of the battery inside the case to do the job its asked to do.

If your charging system check is good (14.4 volts, give or take a little), then get yourself a new battery and you should be good to go.

I would get a Yuasa battery, making sure it’s an AGM. The best way is to get the battery without the acid installed. That way you can put the acid in (the battery should come with instructions on how to do this), let the acid sit for a couple hours, then hook up the charger overnight, and then let it sit for another two hours before checking the voltage. If 12.8 or close, install and ride.

If your buying a battery with the acid installed, bring your volt meter and check the voltage before buying. It should be 12.6 volts minimum. I do this to avoid buying a battery that’s sat around on the shelf too long. Lead acid batteries self discharge, even when not connected to anything.

Earlier this year on my way back from a ride to Mammoth Lakes and back, wind was super strong and blew me and my Bandit over just after i exited freeway to try to wait out the wind gusts.

I ended up getting a tow, and they had my motorcycle headlamp on for a bit to see as it was dark then, and I think ( Im not sure, but am guessing ) they key may have been left in the ignition on because when we arrived back at my parking space from towing it it would not start at all.

The motorcycle has also been knocked over a couple times.

So I am still confused about exactly what setting(s) on my little multimeter i should be using to check battery now. I dont understand the suggestions to check ac setting, as nothing on my multimeter says anything about ac 75 volts.

Is the ac setting the upper right side area that says DCA *200 , *2000, *20m, *200m?
If so, do I click dial to top *200symbol with probes connected to battery terminals and bike running and write down the reading?
Then do the same thing for the next 3 settings below it on dial?
All with motorcycle running and connected to positive and negative battery terminals?

Additional to also testing with bike running and probes connected to the upper left DCV area with dial set at *20 ?

 

[dravnx]

Forget the AC for now. Just give us a DC set on the 20 range at 3000 rpm.
Watch this. Try to educate yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts0EVc9vXcs

 

[cozy]

Forget the AC for now. Just give us a DC set on the 20 range at 3000 rpm.
Watch this. Try to educate yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts0EVc9vXcs

Thanks for the video link. I have watched a few multimeter videos, but they didnt mention the ac option for motorcycles and had different types.

Tested battery in bike with not running, then running with choke, a few minutes ago. -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysjMM834330


After 3rd recharge and in around a week, testing battery after recharging it 3rd time last night. So far it starts after being recharged, and ive been able to ride it once. But after it sits overnight it wont start and has to be recharged again.

Testing with dcv set to 20 on multimeter. Choke on most of the time or it cuts out since its cold and almost always needs some choke to start for a minute or two even more so if its cold weather like today.

I didnt rev throttle for the first minute or so, just let it idle with choke on.
Then revved to around 3000rpms althrough it was mostly doing that on its own with choke on.

Briefly twice I revved it to 5000rpms for a few seconds.

It cut out once, maybe due to cold. So i restarted it and continued test. As shown in edited video.

Without ignition on and not running, battery shows around 12.61dcv.

With key - ignition turned to on position but not running, multimeter shows around 11.9.

Turning bike on reading dropped to 10.22 for a second then quicly went back up to 14.5ish around 3000rpm.
But also flucutated between 6.8 - 14.27.

Didn't see reading go up to 15.dcv or higher even when revved to 5000rpms.

 

[ScottRNelson]

...But after it sits overnight it won't start and has to be recharged again...

Just buy a new battery.

I've found from experience that after a battery won't start the bike twice within a week or so it's never going to be strong again. Get a Yuasa AGM, put the battery acid in yourself, wait as indicated in the instructions, charge it overnight, and you should be good for years. Unless you leave the key on again...

 

[cozy]

Just buy a new battery.

I've found from experience that after a battery won't start the bike twice within a week or so it's never going to be strong again. Get a Yuasa AGM, put the battery acid in yourself, wait as indicated in the instructions, charge it overnight, and you should be good for years. Unless you leave the key on again...

It seems odd though that, if the key was in fact left on that was at least 6 months ago and its started fine usually until recently. If the key on or falling over before had damaged it, wouldnt it display the symptoms right after those incidents, that it is only now?

 

[ScottRNelson]

It seems odd though that, if the key was in fact left on that was at least 6 months ago and its started fine usually until recently. If the key on or falling over before had damaged it, wouldn't it display the symptoms right after those incidents, that it is only now?

No, sometimes it takes time for a battery to degrade enough to be a problem. Plus issues show up when it gets colder.

I had problems with the battery on my KTM 990 Adv, so put a cheap replacement in there (MSR?). After less than a year it started failing, so since it was still under warranty, I traded for a new one. About eight months later same problem. I went ahead and spent the money on a Yuasa AGM at that point and no more problems.

 

[ST Guy]

Thanks for the video link. I have watched a few multimeter videos, but they didnt mention the ac option for motorcycles and had different types.

Tested battery in bike with not running, then running with choke, a few minutes ago. -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysjMM834330


After 3rd recharge and in around a week, testing battery after recharging it 3rd time last night. So far it starts after being recharged, and ive been able to ride it once. But after it sits overnight it wont start and has to be recharged again.

Testing with dcv set to 20 on multimeter. Choke on most of the time or it cuts out since its cold and almost always needs some choke to start for a minute or two even more so if its cold weather like today.

I didnt rev throttle for the first minute or so, just let it idle with choke on.
Then revved to around 3000rpms althrough it was mostly doing that on its own with choke on.

Briefly twice I revved it to 5000rpms for a few seconds.

It cut out once, maybe due to cold. So i restarted it and continued test. As shown in edited video.

Without ignition on and not running, battery shows around 12.61dcv.

With key - ignition turned to on position but not running, multimeter shows around 11.9.

Turning bike on reading dropped to 10.22 for a second then quicly went back up to 14.5ish around 3000rpm.
But also flucutated between 6.8 - 14.27.

Didn't see reading go up to 15.dcv or higher even when revved to 5000rpms.

The 20 volt setting in the DC range is what you want to use as it’s the closest to the voltages you want to measure without going under. If you use the 2000mv setting, that’s not high enough to measure in the 12 to 15 volt range as 2000mv is only 2 volts. The 200 and 1000 volt settings are to high a range and you might not get accurate readings. There are only two settings on your meter for AC. The amp reading ranges can be used to measure amps/capacity but you should never exceed the rating you have the meter set to or you risk blowing the fuse inside. And ohms is used for checking resistance. For now, you’ll only be using the DC setting in the 20 volt range.

I wouldn’t worry about the different readings with the bike running. This is because the meter is constantly searching for a steady reading while the engine is producing a variable reading which the meter can’t keep up with so it throws “bad” readings into the mix. It’s one of the problems with a meter with digital readout. It seems your getting a consistent reading in the low to mid 14 range, so you’re good there. Your charging system is working properly.

Im not sure about the cranking voltage but it should be able to provide adequate voltage to the starter for at least 10 seconds. To do this test, hook up your meter to the battery, turn the kill switch to off so the engine won’t start, and then hit the starter button for 10 seconds while looking at the volt readout. Report back.

When all is said and done, I think a new battery will solve your problems.

 

[cozy]

The 20 volt setting in the DC range is what you want to use as it’s the closest to the voltages you want to measure without going under. If you use the 2000mv setting, that’s not high enough to measure in the 12 to 15 volt range as 2000mv is only 2 volts. The 200 and 1000 volt settings are to high a range and you might not get accurate readings. There are only two settings on your meter for AC. The amp reading ranges can be used to measure amps/capacity but you should never exceed the rating you have the meter set to or you risk blowing the fuse inside. And ohms is used for checking resistance. For now, you’ll only be using the DC setting in the 20 volt range.

I wouldn’t worry about the different readings with the bike running. This is because the meter is constantly searching for a steady reading while the engine is producing a variable reading which the meter can’t keep up with so it throws “bad” readings into the mix. It’s one of the problems with a meter with digital readout. It seems your getting a consistent reading in the low to mid 14 range, so you’re good there. Your charging system is working properly.

Im not sure about the cranking voltage but it should be able to provide adequate voltage to the starter for at least 10 seconds. To do this test, hook up your meter to the battery, turn the kill switch to off so the engine won’t start, and then hit the starter button for 10 seconds while looking at the volt readout. Report back.

When all is said and done, I think a new battery will solve your problems.

Thank you.

I just went out ( about 8 hours after previous starting and testing Bandit ) and did the test.-

Connected multimeter at 20dcv setting to battery.
Reading showed around 12.7ish before turning key on.

Reading lowered to around 11.68 when pressing power start button with kill switch set to off so bike can't start.

I then repeated test a second time. This time reading before pressing power button was lower ( fluxuating around 11.6ish) ) than previously at same phase of test before pressing start button.

When pressing start button 2nd time with kill switch off so can't start, reading was 11.5-11.8.

I did try starting motorcycle after these two tests, and it did start successfully.


https://youtu.be/51hp99V86gk

I've called a few local motorcycle shops but not have a compatible yuasa battery in stock. Anyone ever order tmotorcycle batteries through Amazon or other online shops to have them mailed to you? I'm considering it since no local availability so far, but am wary of the notorious fraudulent sellers in Amazon who sell fake parts made to look like the authentic items. And relying on package delivery people to not throw them around carelessly and damaging them.

Anhoke else have good experiences ordering batteries from specific online sellers? And the yuasa batteries I've seen for sale online look a tiny bit different in placemt of words on the batteries from the one I own. Which makes me wonder if they are the real thing.
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