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Battery Concave: Is this bad?

First of all yeah we dislike the Aheq number that has been being post with regards to the LiFePo4 batteries. its misleading to the customers, and MOTYDesign feels that honest apple to apples numbers keeps the customer educated and happy.

now for cold, we have been actually having good results. the chemistry is more active at warmer temps. However the A123 cells have operating temps of -30 to 60 C. if the cell is in the is colder than about 25 to 30 F the cell will naturally warm its self with the flowof electrons as Junkie has stated. the first crank will sound slow but give a few seconds between cranks the cell will come to strong enough CCAs to start the bike. this is also very similar to lead batteries. thank you Junkie for helping us spread the word about this technology, it will be the future OEM battery.
 
MOTYDesign.com said:
Ultra, i am glad youve asked. there is a misconception of amp hours with what a bike can have on the electrical system. You can have your suit, LEDs, HIDs, extra electronics, and all the way up to what ever your stator is capable of producing. Ah has very little to do with the bike once it is running being your stator takes over. If you have an Alarm this is where Ah matters. this is the time the battery can power the device while the bike is not running. so the lower Ah of these batteries suits the MC world very nicely due to the high discarge rate (CCA) starts the bike strongly, and saves weight and space. Please let us know if you have more questions on the subject
Brooke.
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Maybe one can get away using a smaller Ah battery when riding a bike on the freeway or track because that would keep the rpms up and the stator producing full output. I wouldn't trust a smaller rated battery to stem the deficit that would occur while wearing an electric vest and running auxiliary lights at rpms less than 4000 for much longer than 5 minutes. Such equipment would draw 75% of my maximum rated stator output at 5000 rpm. It would be nicer to have the reserve capacity that was spec'd by the manufacturer.
 
SD, the stator will put out 14v at 2k rpm with decent wattage. the stator will max out at 5k give or take depending on the bike. even if you sat at idle with a 50watt heating suit you would get about an about and hour.(V*A=W)(50w/12v=4.16amps) (4.6Ah/4.16amps = 1.11hours). we can understand the doubt in the technology, and i think that it is just a matter of time that it proves its effectiveness.
 
stav2201 said:
It means your battery got too cold and imploded due to the lack of fluid in it. So its possible that your battery is getting low on juice and you let it get too cold. Im not sure what temp it is exactly that does that, but the less juice you have the less cold it needs to be to do that. Replace it and store your bike in a warmer place.
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Bike is stored in a garage in Livermore. It's kinda warm here in the summer, and during the 'winter,' the garage is kept at 50 degrees.

It is obviously a sealed Yuasa battery - where'd the 'fluid,' go? There are no signs of corrosion, battery exhaust/fumes/gasses eating any of the surrounding metal, plastic, wiring, the seat, or anything else. There is no drip tube.

I did ride when it was snowing in Utah in 2008, but went on to a bunch of other places back through Vegas then DV @ 127 degrees. Don't think cold is the issue.

Battery has been charged and is losing .1v/day.
 
MOTYDesign.com said:
SD, the stator will put out 14v at 2k rpm with decent wattage. the stator will max out at 5k give or take depending on the bike. even if you sat at idle with a 50watt heating suit you would get about an about and hour.(V*A=W)(50w/12v=4.16amps) (4.6Ah/4.16amps = 1.11hours). we can understand the doubt in the technology, and i think that it is just a matter of time that it proves its effectiveness.
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Moty, your example of wearing an electric vest while idling the bike does not consider the bike demand on the electrical system. If I wore the vest inside the Superbowl tommorrow, using a 4.6Ah battery, I would use your figures and figure on an hour of heating.

With the stock equipment, ignition, headlamps, my 600cc bike draws 8.3A x 14V=116W. Add the vest, spec'd at 54W but measured at 70W, 116+70=186W. Add two 35W auxilliary lights that can be switched on or off 186W + 2(35W)=256W. My factory stator is rated at 310W max at 5000rpm.

Now let's take a 4.6Ah battery and see how long it will last without the charging system operating. (4.6Ah*12v)/256W= 13 minutes.

The main point here is the battery capacity is like a bank account. When my rpms fall to a point where my stator output is no longer exceeding the load demands, the loads are also drawing current from the battery. No big deal if I am on the freeway and the rpms are up. It is a big deal if I am in traffic, or toodling about in the back country all day long with my vest on full blast and the aux lights on.
 
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SD duely noted. That being said the stock ytx9-bs puts out 8Ah giving you (8Ah*12v)/256=22 mins.... That being said I apologize I have thread jack this thing and should help with the problem at hand of the sucking battery


http://www.discover-energy.com/faqs/vrla_battery_shape

To prevent the permanent loss of gases so that recombination has time to take place, each cell can hold approx. 1.6 pounds per square inch (psi) of pressure without venting. Therefore, a certain amount of bulge is normal. The valves only let gas out, never in. A partial vacuum can form within a sealed battery under various circumstances. Battery temperature and ambient pressure play a role, but predominantly the recombination and discharge reactions are responsible. After charging ends, the recombination reaction continues until most of the oxygen in the battery is consumed. The total volume within the battery decreases slightly during a discharge. Deeply discharged batteries often have a “sucked-in” appearance. Batteries with large cells may display this appearance even when fully charged. If a battery bulges severely on charge, this is not normal. It is an indication of a blocked valve or an overcharge situation. Such a battery should be removed from service. A sucked-in appearance can also be normal. A sucked-in-battery should be charged, but if it remains sucked-in after charging, the appearance can safely be ignored; however, if only a single cell displays or lacks this appearance a load test would be prudent.


Oh and sorry the past two posts have been by Brian at MOTYDesign, I work with the batteries and gauges. And that's probably what I should get back to doing hahah. Hope my thread jack with SD was informative and not a nuisance (and SD thanks for bringing the big picture in I totally was focused on the suit and not all the draw of the bike!)
 
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Brian, thanks for the reply. I could see myself carrying one of your small, lightweight batteries on a tour, or out in the middle of nowhere. It would save the day if a bike's battery died. I wonder if moto tour guides already carry one in their toolkit. I suppose it would be handy as a power source for a portable air compressor too!
 
maxandgrinch said:
Bike is stored in a garage in Livermore. It's kinda warm here in the summer, and during the 'winter,' the garage is kept at 50 degrees.

It is obviously a sealed Yuasa battery - where'd the 'fluid,' go? There are no signs of corrosion, battery exhaust/fumes/gasses eating any of the surrounding metal, plastic, wiring, the seat, or anything else. There is no drip tube.

I did ride when it was snowing in Utah in 2008, but went on to a bunch of other places back through Vegas then DV @ 127 degrees. Don't think cold is the issue.

Battery has been charged and is losing .1v/day.
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Sorry, battery doesnt have to lose fluid in order to concave inwards, it just has to lose charge and be in cold conditions to do so
 
stav2201 said:
Sorry, battery doesnt have to lose fluid in order to concave inwards, it just has to lose charge and be in cold conditions to do so
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So the charge takes up space inside the battery, and when the charge dissapates it leaves a vacuum?
 
Ok so here is the scientific explanation.

- you have millions of electrons in this battery which are bouncing around inside this case (causing heat and slightly expanding). When your charge dissipates their are less electrons and no force to keep the battery walls pushed out. When you have a low charged battery and apply coldness to it the electrons move slower and reduce power. This is like putting ice on a bump, it makes the swelling go down, and in this case making the walls of your battery bend inwards. Go read your owners manual that your bike comes with, it explains this as well. This can also occur even with a new battery, it has to do with the charging and discharging mostly.

Anyone who said i was wrong can eat a dick too.
 
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Who knew electrons had so much volume?

To race battery dealer:

OP has approximately 838,751 too many motorcycles and scooters to buy $250 batteries for them.
 
Marlowe said:
Who knew electrons had so much volume?

To race battery dealer:

OP has approximately 838,751 too many motorcycles and scooters to buy $250 batteries for them.
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but why buy 838,751 batteries, when you can get one that will start whichever one you're riding at the time... unless you can ride them all at once
 
auntiebling said:
but why buy 838,751 batteries, when you can get one that will start whichever one you're riding at the time... unless you can ride them all at once
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I'm not entirely sure I want a LiPo pack sitting on a 1950s scooter with a very badly regulated charging system.

:laughing
 
LiPo these ain't ;)

the abuse mine took when i put it together, and it sill works, has made me a believer in these packs and at the price being offered by this vendor... i'm just hoping my "fun" account builds up enough to get one or two before the deal is gone
 
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