• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

bitcoins

By your own statements, it’s not currency

You can call it that all day long, doesn’t make it such.

I can transact with stock, and I have done so, doesn’t make it currency. I can take loans against long term positions, doesn’t make it currency.

Until you resolve the investible tax implications it’s no more currency then gold.

And before you tell me about how you can transact in gold without paying taxes, tax avoidance and tax fraud aren’t no taxes.
 
Last edited:
Yakoo752 said:
By your own statements, it’s not currency

You can call it that all day long, doesn’t make it such.

I can transact with stock, and I have done so, doesn’t make it currency. I can take loans against long term positions, doesn’t make it currency.

Until you resolve the investible tax implications it’s no more currency then gold.

And before you tell me about how you can transact in gold without paying taxes, tax avoidance and tax fraud aren’t no taxes.
Click to expand...

:thumbup
 
I’m not advocating that anyone try to avoid paying taxes on any gain they see in anything. I have paid gains on any transaction that I saw a profit on or any trade. This is one of the reasons I no longer trade. I was paying taxes long before they started asking about cryptocurrency transactions when filing.
As to your claim that it is not a currency, the SEC Chairman Jay Clayton has clarified that bitcoin is not a security. “Cryptocurrencies are replacements for sovereign currencies… [they] replace the yen, the dollar, the euro with bitcoin. That type of currency is not a security”.
Thanks but I will listen to the SEC definition before the BARF definition. Especially when they recognize that it is a replacement for “sovereign currencies”. You do you and I will do me. You can miss out on the appreciation of digital assets if you want. That’s your choice. With the amount of public companies adding Bitcoin to their treasuries and the cryptocurrency exchanges going public, it’s hard for me to ignore this new asset class. By all means stay out and have your wealth be stolen in the form of inflation.
 
panthera said:
I’m not advocating that anyone try to avoid paying taxes on any gain they see in anything. I have paid gains on any transaction that I saw a profit on or any trade. This is one of the reasons I no longer trade. I was paying taxes long before they started asking about cryptocurrency transactions when filing.
As to your claim that it is not a currency, the SEC Chairman Jay Clayton has clarified that bitcoin is not a security. “Cryptocurrencies are replacements for sovereign currencies… [they] replace the yen, the dollar, the euro with bitcoin. That type of currency is not a security”.
Thanks but I will listen to the SEC definition before the BARF definition. Especially when they recognize that it is a replacement for “sovereign currencies”. You do you and I will do me. You can miss out on the appreciation of digital assets if you want. That’s your choice. With the amount of public companies adding Bitcoin to their treasuries and the cryptocurrency exchanges going public, it’s hard for me to ignore this new asset class. By all means stay out and have your wealth be stolen in the form of inflation.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter what Clayton says. What matter is how the IRS treats Bitcoin.

To the IRS, Bitcoin is property, and any cap gain is taxable when you spend it. Just like stocks. If you mine it, the basis is the price on the day the coin becomes something you can put in a wallet, and the cap gain is calculated on the day you spend it.

See the tremendous surge in stock prices? That's called asset inflation and is the same thing happening with Bitcoin. Inflation is already here. Only the footprint of investable assets is $200 trillion, stocks, bonds and real property. The Bitcoin foot print is $1 trillion. It's not going to replace those other assets.
 
panthera said:
If you have the cash you buy Bitcoin then send that and you have no tax liability. If you have large Bitcoin holdings and need cash, you leverage those holdings and take a loan out. This solves two problems. You don’t incur taxes and you now get a write off of the interest. Same as wealthy individuals do with art, real estate, stocks, etc. You have to play the same game if you want to hold on to your hard earned value. Never hold it in fiat. Bitcoin is what you want it to be. For me it is a store of value. If I want to transact in it, it is a currency.
Click to expand...

Of course you have tax liability. If you use Bitcoin to pay for a Tesla, that act determines the worth of the Bitcoin. And triggers a taxable event if there is cap gain.

If you leverage, you pay interest to do so.
 
It sounds like you pay a percentage to acquire bitcoins, cashing them in is a process that includes a percentage of their value. So, what is going to happen if/when the value stops increasing?

Yeah, I know that they have been sold as a means of avoiding paying taxes and avoiding traceable payments, but it seems like bitcoin is becoming a victim of it's own success and that the treasury department is likely looking hard into how to extract their pound of flesh as they do for most other transactions.
 
i've lightened my doge bag significantly but am happy to see it moon. i took out my doge at 6c for vechain when vechain was under 4c. lol it was a nobrainer for me, but i'll probably convert it back to doge at some point. i missed it by a day because i knew 4/20 was coming and planned on loading up doge yesterday if it didn't moon.
 
afm199 said:
Of course you have tax liability. If you use Bitcoin to pay for a Tesla, that act determines the worth of the Bitcoin. And triggers a taxable event if there is cap gain.
Click to expand...

You obviously are not understanding what I meant. If I want to buy a tesla with bitcoin so I can use bitcoin as payment and dont want a tax liability, I find out what it will cost me in bitcoin and purchase that amount and then send that bitcoin to cover the purchase. If its gonna cost me 60k to buy a tesla, I buy that amount and instantly send it as payment. No gains increase means no tax liability. I do this ALL the time. I figure if I have the cash already and the merchant wants bitcoin this is what I do. That way I keep the stack I already have and its no different than spending the cash I would have used anyway. I would rather support others in this space and give them the payment they want.
 
did you talk to a tax lawyer about that? i'm pretty sure you're wrong about that after 2017 lol... trust me, i looked for an out / loophole.
 
CABilly said:
Would you buy the IPO or wait for it to (possibly) drop?
Click to expand...

I prefer the asset (bitcoin) which they initially built the business around. You have to wonder why millionaires and billionaires are now buying bitcoin or wanting bitcoin instead of cash payments.
Time magazine will start to accept bitcoin and then hold that on their balance sheet. MicroStrategy will pay some of their board members in Bitcoin. Russell Okung from the panthers is accepting half his yearly salary in bitcoin and is now amongst the highest paid NFL athletes because of his holdings and yearly pay in bitcoin. This is just a few of the companies and people getting involved. I am far from an expert and anything I say should be vetted. I am far from the most eloquent speaker or most knowledgeable about bitcoin. Most of the questions that have been asked in this thread could have been squashed pretty quickly if those asking would have done so on another forum or done their own research. Say bitcointalk.org. Always DYOR. Im happy to point those who desire more info in the right direction.
 
I make the assumption you can LIFO bitcoin transactions, if not the IRS makes the assumption it's FIFO and you pay gains.

EDIT: just looked, you can absolutely use a specific identification method and transact on a cost basis preferred method.
 
Last edited:
dagle said:
did you talk to a tax lawyer about that? i'm pretty sure you're wrong about that after 2017 lol... trust me, i looked for an out / loophole.
Click to expand...

If this is directed towards me, yes. Ive been instructed to keep all my records and I can pick the "tax lot" I want to use. No gain in price means no tax as I already paid tax on that money.
 
Climber said:
Sure got quiet in here over the last several days. :laughing
Click to expand...

It was a small pullback. Still 10x over a year. :dunno

There is discussion to be head that doesn't devolve to "lulz, it's crashing" or "lulz, sky is a limit buy now!"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top