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Bootstrapping working conditions in the USA reddit post.

What's funny is people unironically believe the colloquial/euphemistic use of "bootstraps".

The joke is that it's literally impossible to lift yourself up by your own bootstraps.
 
I think it refers to putting your boots on and getting to work.
 
mean dad said:
Trucking industry reports 94% yearly turn-over rate. It's bad pay for the job, obviously.



*union* electricians plumbers and laborers are making tech wages.
Lots of people make closer to forty-fifty grand a year in the field...wait, what do you consider 'tech' wages? Six figures, or just high five figures?

Anyone know the average 'tech' pay? Lots of folks pulling bank but how many grinding on a laptop for sixty grand or less? :dunno
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When people think tech they are thinking of coders which can make a ton of money a year. But the salary for all tech positions can vary greatly because you have tech support people who make maybe 60K/yr to more senior positions which pay 6 figures or more. So it varies a lot plus the bay areas high cost of living skews the pay rate there because you have to pay more to keep people in other parts of the country 60K can be above average pay.


Trucking can pay a lot but it varies. I had an Ex whose dad owned his own trucks and they made pretty good money but you have to work for it. There are some trucking companies down here that make a ton of money but they bust their asses and always looking for more contracts to make that money.
 
lefty said:
There are lots of high paying jobs for those w/o college degrees; Electricians, Mechanics, Contractors, Long Shoremen, etc, etc. The last guy that I hired to install a door and lights at my home has a degree from Stanford. He's a 55 y/o man who studied Graphic Design, or something like that.

One of the forklift Operators in our warehouse, has a degree in Geology.

So, having a degree does not automatically guarantee you the American Dream.
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Agreed. Hell, I paid a small moto shop $500 to simply replace a bent valve and clean a carb on a small TTR because I got lazy.
 
oobus said:
Someone close to me has a liberal arts degree and she brings down bank in Tech Sales. Degree just shows you have the ability to learn and have some drive. Gets your foot in the door.
Trades don't pay? $80k/year for a truck driver is bad pay? Electrician's and plumbers, construction workers in the Bay Area are making Tech wages.
All depends on the person.
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I’ve thought that my high school graduation and honorable discharge showed some socialization. Not sure what some college means other than I liked spending the $ I got from working. The $2.10 an hour part time after classes eventually became the only job I had. I guess that’s what a career is, not sure ‘cause no degree. :twofinger
 
lefty said:
There are lots of high paying jobs for those w/o college degrees; Electricians, Mechanics, Contractors, Long Shoremen, etc, etc. The last guy that I hired to install a door and lights at my home has a degree from Stanford. He's a 55 y/o man who studied Graphic Design, or something like that.

One of the forklift Operators in our warehouse, has a degree in Geology.

So, having a degree does not automatically guarantee you the American Dream.

The rich use the whole "Dived and Conquer" thing to pit workers against each other and they sit back an collect the spoils.
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"the American Dream" is ... healthcare, parental leave, and not required by your boss to work more than 40 hr/s a week and piss in bottles?!?? :wtf

It is very interesting you approach it from that angle...

.. and yes, my job would have been impossible to be at, or much less even hired at, without a College Degree. I barely know anyone in my job without a degree, ... in other places, it may be or is different.

mean dad said:
Anyone know the average 'tech' pay? Lots of folks pulling bank but how many grinding on a laptop for sixty grand or less? :dunno
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some I know and knew, close. Some of tech is "contract", i.e. you're actually an employee but work per hour.. which hour is actually paid and determined by someone else.
 
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I don't have a degree and started off as an electronic technician with a diploma from DeVry in the '80s. Worked hard, expanded my knowledge base and branched out into mechanical engineering after learning Solidworks OTJ. Worked at many medical device startups because of my background and rose to become a senior Project Engineer. Went on to retire from Intuitive Surgical (DaVinci Robot) as a senior manufacturing/NPI engineer. Still no degree, just working harder than my contemporaries.

My son started as a carpenter apprentice, became a journeyman and is now a Forman with company truck. He makes $140K yearly and has been in the trades 20 years with full union pension and medical. No degree, again just hard work.

It can be done without G.I. (generous in-laws) financing or taking on student loans to get a degree.
 
Yep, union carpenters pull that kind of bank and get a sweet pension. Non-union, not so much.
 
Jammer said:
I don't have a degree and started off as an electronic technician with a diploma from DeVry in the '80s. Worked hard, expanded my knowledge base and branched out into mechanical engineering after learning Solidworks OTJ. Worked at many medical device startups because of my background and rose to become a senior Project Engineer. Went on to retire from Intuitive Surgical (DaVinci Robot) as a senior manufacturing/NPI engineer. Still no degree, just working harder than my contemporaries.

My son started as a carpenter apprentice, became a journeyman and is now a Forman with company truck. He makes $140K yearly and has been in the trades 20 years with full union pension and medical. No degree, again just hard work.

It can be done without G.I. (generous in-laws) financing or taking on student loans to get a degree.
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It absolutely can be done, and no one is saying it can't. Just that these kinds of stories are become more and more the exception especially in a shrinking middle class.
 
Jammer said:
I don't have a degree and started off as an electronic technician with a diploma from DeVry in the '80s. Worked hard, expanded my knowledge base and branched out into mechanical engineering after learning Solidworks OTJ. Worked at many medical device startups because of my background and rose to become a senior Project Engineer. Went on to retire from Intuitive Surgical (DaVinci Robot) as a senior manufacturing/NPI engineer. Still no degree, just working harder than my contemporaries.

My son started as a carpenter apprentice, became a journeyman and is now a Forman with company truck. He makes $140K yearly and has been in the trades 20 years with full union pension and medical. No degree, again just hard work.

It can be done without G.I. (generous in-laws) financing or taking on student loans to get a degree.
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Have you done any work with Design Octaves down here in Santa Cruz? We do a lot of work for medical device startups. :thumbup
 
Karbon said:
It absolutely can be done, and no one is saying it can't. Just that these kinds of stories are become more and more the exception especially in a shrinking middle class.
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Very true. My dad got a job at Ford manually lifting car frame parts from freight cars after WWII and retired as an assistant plant manager.

It was cool seeing him drive up our driveway in a different new Ford car every month.

I was lucky and so was my dad. Also glad my son turned his life around when he went to work at the California Conservation Core, got his GED and then joined the union; He's lucky too. Three successful bootstrapers.
 
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living wage (US wage), beneies, all of it is unsustainable, i wish is was possible, but it is a fairytale. the US population does not support this. most people in the US (and in this forum) go every week to walmart/harbor freight, etc to buy cheap ass chinese and indian goods made cheap by almost nonexistent worker rights and protections in those countries. not many people want to/can pay for quality.
 
Jammer said:
I don't have a degree and started off as an electronic technician with a diploma from DeVry in the '80s. Worked hard, expanded my knowledge base and branched out into mechanical engineering after learning Solidworks OTJ. Worked at many medical device startups because of my background and rose to become a senior Project Engineer. Went on to retire from Intuitive Surgical (DaVinci Robot) as a senior manufacturing/NPI engineer. Still no degree, just working harder than my contemporaries.

My son started as a carpenter apprentice, became a journeyman and is now a Forman with company truck. He makes $140K yearly and has been in the trades 20 years with full union pension and medical. No degree, again just hard work.

It can be done without G.I. (generous in-laws) financing or taking on student loans to get a degree.
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This is the definition of "boot straps". Hard work paid off.
 
TylerW said:
Just the other day I saw a facebook ad for a job search site that depicted a businesses-dressed, optimistic woman. The text of the ad read: "Get the career that provides what you want:

- heathcare
- maternity leave
- paid vacation
- inclusive work environment"

And the comments were an endless tirade of ridicule, and shit like "making demands won't get you a job".

These are basic amenities in nearly any work. Now they're aspirational bonuses? Somehow through devaluing labor via capitalism, we've managed to become more demoralizing to workers than communism ever could.

Simping for billionaires. what a joke.
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Suggesting long hours for poor pay and benefits is more demoralizing than the mass murder of tens of millions of people in concentration camps is just absurd.
 
Comparing what worked in the past to today is a common flaw in thinking.

Also, it took your son 20 years to make what the average mid tier employee in tech makes in 8… and their employment put little wear and tear on their body :2cents
 
Yakoo752 said:
Comparing what worked in the past to today is a common flaw in thinking.

Also, it took your son 20 years to make what the average mid tier employee in tech makes in 8… and their employment put little wear and tear on their body :2cents
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It's not even that, it's that individual experiences are largely irrelevant to the bigger picture.
 
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