I know this is a MC forum but my riding mower needs help. I have burnt two starter motors and don't know where to look. The first one that fried was the original, and I figured it was all of the failed start attempts with a weak battery and bad gas. I replaced it and the new one worked a few times, but it was a very brief life (2 days of mowing/5-6 starts) before it got cooked? Anybody have trouble shooting tips to determine the cause of a failing starter before I get another?
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burnt starter - Briggs/Stratton
- Thread starter Moto4Fun
- Start date
SoarAndEnvision
Zyklon Aeon
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2006
- Location
- San Francisco
- Moto(s)
- 2002 Kawasaki Ninja 500R, 1998 Yamaha YZF 600R
- Name
- Namdar
I will preface this by saying this may not be the most helpful response but:
Are you still using that weak battery ? Have you checked for a short in the connections?
Are you still using that weak battery ? Have you checked for a short in the connections?
Schematic of the starter system. From Lawn Mower and small engine repair.
Bad connections to and from the starter solenoid and connection to the battery and starter. Causes amperage drop that can damage starters. Clean up all the connections, wipe on some dielectric grease then reconnect.
Starter Solenoid can go bad with its relay contacts fouling. Can test by shorting the starter cable to the battery cable on the side of the solenoid. If it starts with renewed power, better then the solenoid supplies. Then its bad.
We had a starter problem. The starter would spin without catching. The spring loaded gear was stuck from dirt and dryness. Sprayed some lube on it and worked fine.
Another thing might be happening. Engine is extra hard to turn over. From the oil stand point. An engine that sits awhile, oil drops off surfaces over time. When starting its harder until oil gets splashed or pumped on those surfaces again. Oil additives or synthetic oil can cling to surfaces over time. It would help keeping everything slick between starts.
Bad connections to and from the starter solenoid and connection to the battery and starter. Causes amperage drop that can damage starters. Clean up all the connections, wipe on some dielectric grease then reconnect.
Starter Solenoid can go bad with its relay contacts fouling. Can test by shorting the starter cable to the battery cable on the side of the solenoid. If it starts with renewed power, better then the solenoid supplies. Then its bad.
We had a starter problem. The starter would spin without catching. The spring loaded gear was stuck from dirt and dryness. Sprayed some lube on it and worked fine.
Another thing might be happening. Engine is extra hard to turn over. From the oil stand point. An engine that sits awhile, oil drops off surfaces over time. When starting its harder until oil gets splashed or pumped on those surfaces again. Oil additives or synthetic oil can cling to surfaces over time. It would help keeping everything slick between starts.
Thanks for very good information.
I have been using the battery that came with it, in conjunction with using my car battery to try to jump it. Let me get more detailed in case anything will stand out.
I bought the mower a few weeks back. When I went to check it out, the guy said it needed a new battery because he couldn't get it to start. With it on a charger, he tried to start it a few times and it the starter began to smoke. I bought it anyways figuring I could have the starter rewound and be in action. I figured that the combination of bad gas and the motor being "gummed up" from sitting and the blade belt turning even when disengaged, the starter was having to work too hard. I got it home, changed out the gas, disconnected the mower deck drive belt, and was able to get it running. The second day that I tried to use it, it wouldn't start, and the battery died after trying unsuccesfully to start the mower. I tried jumping it with the car battery, to no avail and the started was smoking bad and stinking. I ordered a new starter after pulling it apart and seeing all of the windings' insulation melted and black.
The new starter motor worked OK, but not spectacular. The thing has never (except one odd occassion) turned over and over and over. It turns over 1 to 1.5 compression cycles, and then I have to re-key the ignition. But it has worked a few times with the new starter.
The second day of running the mower with a new starter (same old battery) I was mowing and turned it off to hook up the trailer. It was off for 5 minutes and when I went to restart it, it wouldn't go. I tried unsuccessfully until the battery was dead, and tried to jump it with the car again. I stopped and put the battery on the Battery Tender and it charged up to 13+V. It still did not start. Once again the starter began to smoke. I pulled it apart and it doesn't look as bad as the first one. But it doesn't look good.
I pulled the battery out and the starter relay/solenoid and the associated wiring. I replaced all of the 12 or 10 gauge wire with new 4 gauge wire with gold terminals. I had noticed that wire getting really hot. I tested the solenoid and it is fine. Continuity when energized, none when not.
Is there a way to test the starter motor windings to determine if I need to replace it again? How can I trouble shoot the battery to determine if it is truly "hosed"?
I have been using the battery that came with it, in conjunction with using my car battery to try to jump it. Let me get more detailed in case anything will stand out.
I bought the mower a few weeks back. When I went to check it out, the guy said it needed a new battery because he couldn't get it to start. With it on a charger, he tried to start it a few times and it the starter began to smoke. I bought it anyways figuring I could have the starter rewound and be in action. I figured that the combination of bad gas and the motor being "gummed up" from sitting and the blade belt turning even when disengaged, the starter was having to work too hard. I got it home, changed out the gas, disconnected the mower deck drive belt, and was able to get it running. The second day that I tried to use it, it wouldn't start, and the battery died after trying unsuccesfully to start the mower. I tried jumping it with the car battery, to no avail and the started was smoking bad and stinking. I ordered a new starter after pulling it apart and seeing all of the windings' insulation melted and black.
The new starter motor worked OK, but not spectacular. The thing has never (except one odd occassion) turned over and over and over. It turns over 1 to 1.5 compression cycles, and then I have to re-key the ignition. But it has worked a few times with the new starter.
The second day of running the mower with a new starter (same old battery) I was mowing and turned it off to hook up the trailer. It was off for 5 minutes and when I went to restart it, it wouldn't go. I tried unsuccessfully until the battery was dead, and tried to jump it with the car again. I stopped and put the battery on the Battery Tender and it charged up to 13+V. It still did not start. Once again the starter began to smoke. I pulled it apart and it doesn't look as bad as the first one. But it doesn't look good.
I pulled the battery out and the starter relay/solenoid and the associated wiring. I replaced all of the 12 or 10 gauge wire with new 4 gauge wire with gold terminals. I had noticed that wire getting really hot. I tested the solenoid and it is fine. Continuity when energized, none when not.
Is there a way to test the starter motor windings to determine if I need to replace it again? How can I trouble shoot the battery to determine if it is truly "hosed"?
Know what you mean getting on a few cranks each key turn. Ours does the same, its amazing it starts at all.
I keep recycling Motorcle batteries through it. The MC gets the new battery the lawnmower gets the old MC battery. So the hard starting might be from a less then good condition battery.
Does sound like the battery is hosed. Loses a charge in five minutes. Can test them using a load tester. Many places will test batteries for free, then try to sell you one
Wally World sells smaller batteries that'll fit.
Tune the motor with new plugs and air filter. Make it as easy to start as posible.
Can check the starter motor windings using a Volt/Ohm meter. It'll .1-1 ohm resistance. Just power up the starter removed from the mower will test it 2
Mowers don't get much mileage on them. Unless it was used on a farm or something. The engine is relatively in good shape.
I keep recycling Motorcle batteries through it. The MC gets the new battery the lawnmower gets the old MC battery. So the hard starting might be from a less then good condition battery.
Does sound like the battery is hosed. Loses a charge in five minutes. Can test them using a load tester. Many places will test batteries for free, then try to sell you one
Wally World sells smaller batteries that'll fit. Tune the motor with new plugs and air filter. Make it as easy to start as posible.
Can check the starter motor windings using a Volt/Ohm meter. It'll .1-1 ohm resistance. Just power up the starter removed from the mower will test it 2
Mowers don't get much mileage on them. Unless it was used on a farm or something. The engine is relatively in good shape.
Almost a year later...
I have gone through three starters and 2 starter solenoids and a new battery. There is something NOT right with the system. I can't quite figure it out. Could it be the starters that I am buying off of EBay? Could it be the battery I bought from Kragen?
The engine seems cool. I keep the battery on a tender. But it just seems like there is not enough juice driving the starter.
I have gone through three starters and 2 starter solenoids and a new battery. There is something NOT right with the system. I can't quite figure it out. Could it be the starters that I am buying off of EBay? Could it be the battery I bought from Kragen?
The engine seems cool. I keep the battery on a tender. But it just seems like there is not enough juice driving the starter.
nine_inch_rear
Active member
Is the engine binding? Are the starter motors new? I think you have a voltage drop problem.. check and replace the battery cables (its possible you have corrosion wicking up inside the cable. Then, clean to a nice shine the neg and positive cables where they end up. Iam assuming one goes to engine ground, the other goes to solenoid. Cant stress enough that these connections have to be tight and corrosion/rust free. Now go back and do the same cleaning, checking, replacing cables (if nec) at the solenoid and down to the starter. Get a volt meter. While cranking, see what the battery voltage is taken at the battery. Then, while cranking see what the battery voltage is at the starter pos terminal, and the other lead to ground. They should be close in readings. If theres a difference of a couple of volts, even one volt, youve got too much resistance
Ironbutt
Loves the anecdotal
It's been a year? I would look to the bottom of the engine and see what's binding on the pulleys.. The mower clutch(if you want to call those contraptions that) might not be disengaging all the way. Your shaft might be bent.. something is dragging.
JimE
Rider
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
- Location
- 95018
- Moto(s)
- '06 S2R1k, '11 R1200GS, '09 F800GS, 19 350 EXC-F
- Name
- Jim
- BARF perks
- AMA #: 3188342
I agree that something is dragging down the starter. The rest of the system is fairly simple. My business includes sales/service on B&S gensets but I have access to manauls and parts. Maybe even for your model. Let me know the model and serial of the unit and I can take a look through my online dealer access for pdf's and the like. Price you new parts or whatever. At least make sure your not getting screwed for them. PM is good.
I figured it was excessive drag as I originally had better luck when I would disconnect the mower deck belts. But I can turn the motor over by hand, and I have to believe the starter should have enough torque to do that.
Looking at where the starter engages the fly wheel I am unsure of how the electrical connections might be affected. Does the starter ground on the mounting bolts? The start circuit is very simple, and I can't see how it could be screwed up. Battery>solenoid>starter. Both cables are new 4 guage with gold connectors. The only thing questionable would be the ground or one of the components.
Either way, I had a baby in February, and I have two bikes to work on and I am over spending a moment repairing this sorry mower. I am selling it to the first guy with more than 1 Benjamin and a trailer.
I am now seeking advice on a non-low end replacement. I am considering all major brands and all common retailers. Any advice would be appreciated.
Looking at where the starter engages the fly wheel I am unsure of how the electrical connections might be affected. Does the starter ground on the mounting bolts? The start circuit is very simple, and I can't see how it could be screwed up. Battery>solenoid>starter. Both cables are new 4 guage with gold connectors. The only thing questionable would be the ground or one of the components.
Either way, I had a baby in February, and I have two bikes to work on and I am over spending a moment repairing this sorry mower. I am selling it to the first guy with more than 1 Benjamin and a trailer.
I am now seeking advice on a non-low end replacement. I am considering all major brands and all common retailers. Any advice would be appreciated.